SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Sub/Naval + Other Games > Classic Subsims
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-19, 12:40 PM   #1
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default AOD AI

Have a career going in this too for awhile. AI and escort AI in this game puts the SH series to shame.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-19, 01:57 PM   #2
XenonSurf
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Italy
Posts: 1,703
Downloads: 107
Uploads: 4
Default

Yes, AOD escorts are very competent, generally the closest escort will search and not dropping charges, he guides the second one which stays a bit furhter away and ready to follow the signals of the first. He will then come-in at 30+ knots to get you...Very realistic
Also, a destroyer may just cut-off its engine and wait for you on the surface...
But they have their flaws too: Sometimes, with a larger convoy, if 4 destroyers are around it to protect, if the one ahead spots you, not all destroyers together will come to chase you, only the one who spots you, that's a flaw because there is the rule: if 1 spots you, then all can spot you (because of radio messages). So, if I'm willing to sink that 1 destroyer, I have a easy time to infiltrate the convoy and do serious havock, the other destroyers being too far away. However: not sure that this was on the most difficult realism level.
Currently, I'm still trying to eliminate sound problems in CAOD, so I play with 1% realism to see everything


However, I still believe that SH1 has the best AI ever done in a sub game, with a lot of tricks in the book to fool you, but unfortunately the game has some nasty bugs, like the sub's deck gun which is too much powered, and destroyers beyond 2500 yards not shooting at you when they see you escaping on the surface.

Last edited by XenonSurf; 04-02-19 at 02:11 PM.
XenonSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-19, 03:42 PM   #3
Julhelm
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Icy North
Posts: 690
Downloads: 189
Uploads: 0
Default

The Cold Waters AI employs hunter-killer tactics like this too. When several escorts are screening a convoy, it actually is realistic that only a single hunter-killer team are dispatched to attack your submarine, since the convoy still has to be screened from any other potential threats. Neither 'hunter' nor 'killer' need necessarily be escort ships: aircraft and helicopters can deliver depth charges and homing torpedoes on target data provided by a surface ship, and aircraft / helicopter may get a fix on you with sonobouys and call in an attack from a nearby surface ship, and the same rules apply in WW2.
Julhelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-19, 04:33 PM   #4
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
The Cold Waters AI employs hunter-killer tactics like this too. When several escorts are screening a convoy, it actually is realistic that only a single hunter-killer team are dispatched to attack your submarine, since the convoy still has to be screened from any other potential threats. Neither 'hunter' nor 'killer' need necessarily be escort ships: aircraft and helicopters can deliver depth charges and homing torpedoes on target data provided by a surface ship, and aircraft / helicopter may get a fix on you with sonobouys and call in an attack from a nearby surface ship, and the same rules apply in WW2.
Yeah, that's what I think too; better that all the escorts don't come charging, leaving the rest of the convoy exposed.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-19, 07:32 AM   #5
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default

Another great thing with AOD ai, is the escorts search/ping in an actual sweep like the real equipment did vs. the straight ahead search cone only that SH3 seems to use.
And you can hear the difference in them doing so, and adjust evasion tactics if you dare; i.e., it's pinging away from me now, but for how long ? Do I dare to make a radical course change while the asdic is pinging away from me in hopes of creating distance ?
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-19, 11:25 AM   #6
XenonSurf
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Italy
Posts: 1,703
Downloads: 107
Uploads: 4
Default

Best is to keep low profile on each sonar ping, meaning you present your bow or stern to the sonar with +/- 30° at max. But if they get close they spot you anyway. At more than 170 feet you can go at half speed to get distance. If you don't hear pings anymore at slow speed it means they are more than 3000 yards away, you should be safe here, don't use your scope...
I find it easy to sink destroyers by letting them spot me, and let them come to 550 yards distance in which case I fire straight an aft torpedo. Success most of the time, after which I can escape on surface - or head to the convoy directly.


It's too bad that in CAOD, if you play without using the map, then you don't hear the ships passing over you when you are underwater, that's very annoying. I find no way to tweak the sounds to make all effects playing. I have eliminated the nasty 'Click' sound which will not cut the engine sound each time.

To exactly know about AI tactics on the hardest AOD level, I would need to mod the map to show everything while keeping the highest level which is not possible. But anyway: the AI is great and not repetitive, I have serious problems ending a patrol successfully when I get aggressive, the damages you take by getting shell hits are not a piece of cake

The flooding consequences are however showing-up too fast in order to have much choices to react: the sub will submerge automatically if too much water floods, that's ok, but after this you are doomed pretty fast, even if you go flank and blow your tanks, at some point you sink within seconds... Maybe the game is running too fast on Win7.

Last edited by XenonSurf; 04-04-19 at 11:39 AM.
XenonSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-19, 12:36 PM   #7
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonSurf View Post
Best is to keep low profile on each sonar ping, meaning you present your bow or stern to the sonar with +/- 30° at max. But if they get close they spot you anyway. At more than 170 feet you can go at half speed to get distance. If you don't hear pings anymore at slow speed it means they are more than 3000 yards away, you should be safe here, don't use your scope...
I find it easy to sink destroyers by letting them spot me, and let them come to 550 yards distance in which case I fire straight an aft torpedo. Success most of the time, after which I can escape on surface - or head to the convoy directly.


It's too bad that in CAOD, if you play without using the map, then you don't hear the ships passing over you when you are underwater, that's very annoying. I find no way to tweak the sounds to make all effects playing. I have eliminated the nasty 'Click' sound which will not cut the engine sound each time.

To exactly know about AI tactics on the hardest AOD level, I would need to mod the map to show everything while keeping the highest level which is not possible. But anyway: the AI is great and not repetitive, I have serious problems ending a patrol successfully when I get aggressive, the damages you take by getting shell hits are not a piece of cake

The flooding consequences are however showing-up too fast in order to have much choices to react: the sub will submerge automatically if too much water floods, that's ok, but after this you are doomed pretty fast, even if you go flank and blow your tanks, at some point you sink within seconds... Maybe the game is running too fast on Win7.
Yeah, CAOD is to sound buggy. I've always stuck with AOD because of it. I like SH3, but it seems sterile/dry at times.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-19, 03:25 PM   #8
XenonSurf
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany, Italy
Posts: 1,703
Downloads: 107
Uploads: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pancoast View Post


I like SH3, but it seems sterile/dry at times.

Try the WAC5 mod with SH3, it has a very action-rich campaign.
XenonSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-19, 04:55 PM   #9
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonSurf View Post
Try the WAC5 mod with SH3, it has a very action-rich campaign.
No complaint with action in any mod campaign. Hard to explain. No big deal.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.