Course wander

Mios 4Me · 09-22-19, 08:22 PM

Why is there so much wandering from long-distance plotted courses? It's normally not an issue anywhere but Pearl-ECS on rare occasions, but this recent string of Pearl-Palau/SOWESPAC has really made it a glaring issue. I'll plot a safe course through the mess of the Marshalls and Carolines, coming near these atoll islets but seemingly still far enough away to be safe. I'll go to high TC, only to watch the course line wander closer and closer until it intersects the island. Why isn't the navigator handling this?

Add in all the enemy air alerts (apparently the Japanese air forces are bigger than the rest of the world's combined), the friendly air alerts (50 km from Pearl, seriously?), and the other annoyances (Pac News, etc) that constantly drop us out of high warp (err, high TC), and these transpac slogs are becoming really exasperating.

Anyone have a mid-career fix for any of this?

propbeanie · 09-22-19, 10:15 PM

Sniper297 did "LOCKWOOD.zip where he put a "base" somewhere around Marcus, if you really want to cut-out all that travel.

As for the "wandering", part of that is the "world" as we know it (globe) versus as the game knows it (cylinder). In other words, the game is almost a flat-earther...

You might notice that Kurile is about as far away from Dutch Harbor as Hawaii is from Japan. Call it "distortion"... The rest of it I just put to inaccurate helming, sea currents and cross winds... Also, it is the skipper's responsibility to not hit land or damage his boat in any way...

In the Stock game and most mods, the "built-in" SD radar is always on, unless you are submerged. Some mods (TMO??) have a "raise and lower" for the antennae, for when you are submerged. In FotRSU, CapnScurvy turned that raise/lower into an 'On / Off' feature for the SD, and then made the SJ able to stay on better when in rougher seas. Since you can turn the SJ on and off already, adding the SD on and off helps when you are leaving or approaching a friendly location, in that you will not get interrupted by radar reports if you don't wish to. Now, if there was only a way to eliminate the sonar interruptions... Don't really want to eliminate the visual sightings, else you'll hear "Medic!" and "Sir, we're taking damage!" and "Sir, we have flooding!"...

jimmbbo · 09-22-19, 10:21 PM

Don't recall which thread/post but there is an edit to one of the files that allows reduction of the swarms of airplanes, IIRC either by number or range... Perhaps a Senior Kaleun can fill in the info.

propbeanie · 09-22-19, 10:37 PM

Webster's Better Air Patrols

A couple of points about that though, is that the percentage of chance of having an air attack is reduced, but their accuracy when they do attack is greater... So you'll still get sunk if you don't pay attention.

skirich · 09-22-19, 10:37 PM

Odd, my courses never wander even at TC 8146
I can thread a needle through all the Philippines every time.
That said I have many waypoints, I even make smoother curves using extra waypoints so that may help? Plotting a course and having one or more changes at extreme angles changes the overall course due to the turning radius of the sub. Add more waypoints to smooth things out.

Now I do see increasing TC causing planes to go goofy and crash on land, and ships to hit shore.

If you ever need a convoy to strike group in a tight area, just sit tight at all stop and hit the TC. Then go hit sitting ducks.

Mios 4Me · 09-22-19, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Webster's Better Air Patrols

A couple of points about that though, is that the percentage of chance of having an air attack is reduced, but their accuracy when they do attack is greater... So you'll still get sunk if you don't pay attention.

I would love to implement that, along with the most of the rest of Berbster's GFO megamod, but wouldn't I run into trouble installing it mid-career? I'm running stock 1.5 but with self-made changes to create a 1941 Balao with appropriate sensors, guns, and torps, plus unrestricted crew. I believe GFO requires a certain sequential installation, so I'm really at sea here.

I've gotten so frustrated with the air situation that, when leaving an area, I stay on the surface to fight it out with approaching aircraft. Not wise, but with a sharpshooter and two bombardes, satisfying. It's also surprising how many planes actually narrowly miss finding out after you've made ace in a day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skirich

Odd, my courses never wander even at TC 8146
I can thread a needle through all the Philippines every time.
That said I have many waypoints,

These are usually ultra long range, zero way point courses. Usually it's just a nuisance but every now and then there's a shallow spot with a tiny bit of rock that you really have to zoom in on to see. Don't ask me how I know.

skirich · 09-23-19, 12:02 AM

Download the mod and do a folder compare against the data directory of the mod and the data directory of your install.

In none of the files that will change are the ones you changed, then it should be no issue.

The settings for enemy craft are not part of your save file.

if a few files are going to overwrite your files, you can compare those files individually to see what changes and apply as needed.

I've been doing this for a while now ever since I figured out that mods step all over each other.

Mios 4Me · 09-24-19, 06:03 AM

GFO has ~10 different mods, so that sounds pretty involved since they have to be done sequentially. I may have to save that for the end of a career.

Someone had created a 1941 Balao starting from Midway mod which I used early on. I ran into some of the same issues described elsewhere, which at the time I assumed were conflicts but now I'm not so sure. Midway would be my preferred starting point...well, Manila, if it were possible to transfer out of there (Fremantle, actually) before late '43.

propbeanie · 09-24-19, 06:27 AM

For adding boats, you need to set the boat's UPC and cfg files (Roster and Submarine folders) to match your target dates, as well as any equipment you might need on the boat (if it isn't already set that way). Add or alter the dates of the boat in the Flotilla.upc file, and add the boat's listing to the CareerStart.upc file, both found in the Data / UPCData / UPCCampaignData folder (unless a U-Boat, and you would use UPCDataGE). It just looks confusing...

[famous last words before the CTD]

Mios 4Me · 09-24-19, 09:28 AM

thanks for posting that. I'd added a Balao to each of the two opening fleets, but obviously had missed something since transfers never were available for quite awhile.

Pisces · 09-24-19, 09:46 AM

Quite simple, the helmsman goes off-duty once he is near the commanded course degree and sets rudder amidship. He never fine tunes it until it is exact and keeps it there. The only solution you have is to place a waypoint far away that is never reached. Then he keeps homing into it. With free rudder your boat's course is subject to the whims of the numerical integration math which goes on a random path.

Barkerov · 09-26-19, 08:35 PM

I find that each time I save and close the game, when I reload I need to issue the follow plotted course command or it wanders a bit. After I do that she's fine.

jimmbbo · 09-26-19, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

Why is there so much wandering from long-distance plotted courses?

FWIW in stock 1.4/1.5 I have conducted a couple of dozen PH missions and set courses from Midway to Japan without an issue regardless of TC setting..

skirich · 09-26-19, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkerov

I find that each time I save and close the game, when I reload I need to issue the follow plotted course command or it wanders a bit. After I do that she's fine.

I believe this is "normal'. The depth and speed remain but course needs to be set again.

Interesting, if you issue the return to course command from anything other than the map screen, the helmsman issues an All Stop order.

Mios 4Me · 09-27-19, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmbbo

FWIW in stock 1.4/1.5 I have conducted a couple of dozen PH missions and set courses from Midway to Japan without an issue regardless of TC setting..

Try one from PH to the ECS running close to Higashi (I don't have the game in front of me) with no other waypoints and see how it changes as you get closer.

The nearer the way- or end-points, the less the wander, so Midway would be less of an issue.

09-22-19, 08:22 PM	#1
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Course wander Why is there so much wandering from long-distance plotted courses? It's normally not an issue anywhere but Pearl-ECS on rare occasions, but this recent string of Pearl-Palau/SOWESPAC has really made it a glaring issue. I'll plot a safe course through the mess of the Marshalls and Carolines, coming near these atoll islets but seemingly still far enough away to be safe. I'll go to high TC, only to watch the course line wander closer and closer until it intersects the island. Why isn't the navigator handling this? Add in all the enemy air alerts (apparently the Japanese air forces are bigger than the rest of the world's combined), the friendly air alerts (50 km from Pearl, seriously?), and the other annoyances (Pac News, etc) that constantly drop us out of high warp (err, high TC), and these transpac slogs are becoming really exasperating. Anyone have a mid-career fix for any of this?

09-22-19, 10:15 PM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Sniper297 did "LOCKWOOD.zip where he put a "base" somewhere around Marcus, if you really want to cut-out all that travel. As for the "wandering", part of that is the "world" as we know it (globe) versus as the game knows it (cylinder). In other words, the game is almost a flat-earther... You might notice that Kurile is about as far away from Dutch Harbor as Hawaii is from Japan. Call it "distortion"... The rest of it I just put to inaccurate helming, sea currents and cross winds... Also, it is the skipper's responsibility to not hit land or damage his boat in any way... In the Stock game and most mods, the "built-in" SD radar is always on, unless you are submerged. Some mods (TMO??) have a "raise and lower" for the antennae, for when you are submerged. In FotRSU, CapnScurvy turned that raise/lower into an 'On / Off' feature for the SD, and then made the SJ able to stay on better when in rougher seas. Since you can turn the SJ on and off already, adding the SD on and off helps when you are leaving or approaching a friendly location, in that you will not get interrupted by radar reports if you don't wish to. Now, if there was only a way to eliminate the sonar interruptions... Don't really want to eliminate the visual sightings, else you'll hear "Medic!" and "Sir, we're taking damage!" and "Sir, we have flooding!"... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

09-22-19, 10:21 PM	#3
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Swarms of Japanese airplanes Don't recall which thread/post but there is an edit to one of the files that allows reduction of the swarms of airplanes, IIRC either by number or range... Perhaps a Senior Kaleun can fill in the info.

09-22-19, 10:37 PM	#4
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Webster's Better Air Patrols A couple of points about that though, is that the percentage of chance of having an air attack is reduced, but their accuracy when they do attack is greater... So you'll still get sunk if you don't pay attention. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

09-24-19, 06:27 AM	#9
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	For adding boats, you need to set the boat's UPC and cfg files (Roster and Submarine folders) to match your target dates, as well as any equipment you might need on the boat (if it isn't already set that way). Add or alter the dates of the boat in the Flotilla.upc file, and add the boat's listing to the CareerStart.upc file, both found in the Data / UPCData / UPCCampaignData folder (unless a U-Boat, and you would use UPCDataGE). It just looks confusing... [famous last words before the CTD] __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

09-22-19, 10:37 PM	#5
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Odd, my courses never wander even at TC 8146 I can thread a needle through all the Philippines every time. That said I have many waypoints, I even make smoother curves using extra waypoints so that may help? Plotting a course and having one or more changes at extreme angles changes the overall course due to the turning radius of the sub. Add more waypoints to smooth things out. Now I do see increasing TC causing planes to go goofy and crash on land, and ships to hit shore. If you ever need a convoy to strike group in a tight area, just sit tight at all stop and hit the TC. Then go hit sitting ducks.

09-23-19, 12:02 AM	#7
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Download the mod and do a folder compare against the data directory of the mod and the data directory of your install. In none of the files that will change are the ones you changed, then it should be no issue. The settings for enemy craft are not part of your save file. if a few files are going to overwrite your files, you can compare those files individually to see what changes and apply as needed. I've been doing this for a while now ever since I figured out that mods step all over each other.

09-24-19, 06:03 AM	#8
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	GFO has ~10 different mods, so that sounds pretty involved since they have to be done sequentially. I may have to save that for the end of a career. Someone had created a 1941 Balao starting from Midway mod which I used early on. I ran into some of the same issues described elsewhere, which at the time I assumed were conflicts but now I'm not so sure. Midway would be my preferred starting point...well, Manila, if it were possible to transfer out of there (Fremantle, actually) before late '43.

09-24-19, 09:28 AM	#10
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	thanks for posting that. I'd added a Balao to each of the two opening fleets, but obviously had missed something since transfers never were available for quite awhile.

09-24-19, 09:46 AM	#11
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	Quite simple, the helmsman goes off-duty once he is near the commanded course degree and sets rudder amidship. He never fine tunes it until it is exact and keeps it there. The only solution you have is to place a waypoint far away that is never reached. Then he keeps homing into it. With free rudder your boat's course is subject to the whims of the numerical integration math which goes on a random path. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

09-26-19, 08:35 PM	#12
Barkerov Soundman Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 147 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	I find that each time I save and close the game, when I reload I need to issue the follow plotted course command or it wanders a bit. After I do that she's fine.