Cliffs of Dover: IL2 Sturmovik

[GSpector]

Wow, I just signed up to be a Beta Testor of Wings of Planes and downloaded there System Test Application. Graphics were pretty good, even though it just ran in Direct x 9 mode only.

My test results were:
Avg FPS: 119.9
Minimal FPS Factor: 79.9
Rating: 27270

I hope I get picked to Beta Test. But I'm not sure if I'll need to pay for the Beta Version. The site was not very clear on that.

It seems to only be an MMO Sim but it does look good enough to try.

[hawk2495]

Any current data on the playability of CoD? Been wanting to get it, but not sure I want to waste the money on a product that runs like garbage even on my system.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by hawk2495

Any current data on the playability of CoD? Been wanting to get it, but not sure I want to waste the money on a product that runs like garbage even on my system.

I have C2D 2.93, GTS250 and 4Gb RAM, it runs quite well so you shouldn't have a problem whatsoever. If you do, I will kindly swap rigs

[Oberon]

So...Cliffs of Dover...


"Are you sitting comfortably? Then I will begin..."

So, the great triumph of Oleg...I think I'll steer clear of what has been said about Cliffs of Dover, because I think Hunter will throw me in the Brig. So, I'll focus on my first impressions...


"You can teach...Monkeys...to code better than that!"

My God this thing eats CPUs for breakfast...I dare not try it on its highest settings for fear of creating some kind of inferno in my computer case. Definitely not one for lower systems...particularly if you make the mistake of putting the models on 'Low' and then look outside...My God it looks like something from Red Baron 3D...actually...that's insulting R3D...it's awful!
So, take my advice...do not take it lower than Medium. Ever.
The cockpit is beautiful though...but wrong...on the Spitfire Mark One at least, there is no manual pumping involved on the undercarriage...which is a bit daft because the lever for doing it is there, but it just doesn't do anything, instead the undercarriage is treated like a standard powered pump system, which was on some Mk 1 Spits, but not many at the time of the Battle of Britain IIRC. For a Mark II onwards it's fine.
The trim wheels don't seem to move with the mouse...they affect the plane but there is no visual feedback so you don't know how much you've trimmed the plane by and getting it back to level trim is hard without that feedback.
Now, I've flown the Accusim Spitfire Mk 1, and she is probably the closest you'll get to flying the real thing...and she is a dream...hard to master, but lovely to fly.
The Spitfire from CloD is not to that level but it IS a massive improvement over the Spitfires from IL2 1946. In particular she is not a twitchy stall monster but turns nicely, and about as one would expect. The engine cuts out in negative Gs which is good, and you can't do stupid things without stalling her...but at the same time you can actually turn tightly without automatically spinning into the English Channel.


"Give me a squadron of Accusim Spitfires!"

So, what's missing? Well...as far as I can tell from my jaunts over the Channel and quick circuit around my airbase, there's no shaking to warn of an impending stall, not unless you are already stalling and just about to slip into a spin. According to just about every report I've read on the Spit, she was a forgiving aircraft ( ) and warned you before she entered a stall by shaking, letting you know that you needed to get your airspeed back up. I put her nose up and let the speed bleed off and there was nothing until my port wing dipped and down I went...however, recovering from a stall or spin is relatively easy, easier than in IL2 1946, however whether that's a step towards realism or playability I could not say.

Starting her up and taking off was a simple process, a bit more detailed than the simple 'I' from IL2, however not as involved as Accusim, it's a case of 'Check fuel on', 'Mixture Rich', 'Magnetos on' 'Throttle cracked' and 'Press I' She waddled around like a pregnant cow (I'm not sure the suspension is that soft!) and then finally up we went. Climbing was difficult until the airspeed went up, so no magic carpets there. Then it was a case of doing a quick circle and come back down again. Flaps went down fine, gear went down fine (Putting the gear down is realistic enough, it's just the lack of manual pump to raise it that's the problem) and bugger me if I didn't land her without breaking something. Bumped a bit, but that's to be expected.


"Bumps-a-daisy...it's enough to make you weep..."

So...why didn't she overheat? That's the big question...the Spitfire is a very temperamental lass, and her biggest problem is overheating that big Royals Royce Merlin, and there's barely one landing on Accusim that I've come in on and not cooked the radiator. That is debatable whether it is a fault for Accusim or Oleg, because blowing your radiator every time you flew the Spit would not exactly make for exciting gameplay, however accurate. So if that is something that was dropped by Oleg, I can understand why.

I've not tried dogfighting...nor do I think I shall attempt to until I have ironed out the performance issues...I suspect that it's probably got a lot to do with my Windows XP 32 bit edition, that seems to be the cause of just about every PC problem I have at the moment. Next year I shall rob a bank and see about getting Windows 7. Until then, well...IL2 1946 with the HSFX mod will be the place to be...and hopefully by then CloD will have been fixed, because don't get me wrong...this thing has potential, the graphics are quite lovely and the sounds are being improved by the team working on the updates...I find it worrying that there are reports of DLC 'Battle for Moscow' being worked on...I'd personally prefer it that more of the work was focused on fixing the existing planes first...but...one has to remember that 1C:Maddox is a Russian developer which means that they will always lean towards getting Russian stuff into the game asap (and probably make it overpowered when they do...but that's a rant for another day) so I guess that such things were inevitable...with any luck they'll work on improving the base sim alongside the DLC, certainly if current signs are anything to go by this is the plan of action they have, and now that the dev team seem to be more focused on what they are doing, hopefully they'll be able to knuckle down and get it all sorted.

So...my overall verdict...SO FAR...on CloD...it's good, but it still has a way to go...it's better than IL2 in many areas, unfortunately performance is not one of them, however its simulation is not up to the levels of Accusim, which is perhaps quite a bar to hold it up to...but I believe that the amount of time that went into developing CloD (longer than the actual Second World War) then it is justifiable in making that comparison, particularly with some of the claims that were made by Oleg and his marketing team early on in production.
I'm sure that I'll fire it up again at some point over the next couple of days and perhaps try the Hurricane out, but the initial Spitfire Mk I test was purely because of the wide range of sims I have flown that plane on and the reading I have done about her performance and handling, I have a rough idea of what she should do and what she shouldn't, and for the most part CloD delivers on that. It's a promising base for a sim...but it's got a long way to go before it reaches maturity, and hopefully...like IL2...the addons and patches will help with that.


Hunter: "That's it...no f-bombs? No flaming? No baiting?"


Hunter: "Oh well...back to GT you lot...you're not needed here after all!"


DISCLAIMER: I have since discovered that I neglected to turn on the Temperature feature in the GUI, have done that and will test the Spit out again tomorrow. In the Hurricane though I was still able to take-off, turn around and land again without brewing up.

[Dowly]

The AI sucks balls too. Last night, I flew in a nice formation with a bunch of 109s.. in a Hurricane.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The pre-2001 menu text graphics kills it for me before I even get to an airfield.

And that music, ye gads, the music is horrendous

Nice speech there Oberon. I don't think it's right to try to compare to an A2A sim as they know the limitations of FS9/X before starting, whereas spending half-a-decade in production there have been some leaps and bounds in processors, graphics cards and the like - it must be a struggle to keep up and find that fine line between playable for the masses or technologically superior.

It's not perfect, needs a lot of work still, and I hope they can do that. But it is Ubi... 'Ah, sod it, the community can fix it...'

[Oberon]

The music is terrible and the campaign...well...I refuse to even try it.

I see where you're coming from Herr B, but they must have known that a combat sim within FSX's framework could work (that is to say a sim like FSX but with a damage model and bullets/cannons/bombs)...I mean, FSX has been pushed in many directions since it has been released...and yes, it's not particularly well optimized either and has since been abandoned by MS (although not by choice to be fair since the section of MS that made FS was shut down) but the ways it has been pushed, by Accusim alone, have far exceeded the boundaries of the original program.
Understandably though there was a push on graphics, because let's face it, Oleg was trying to bring in a wider audience, all sim makers are (with perhaps the exception of the chaps behind such sims as Dustcart Simulator...) so the flashy graphics have to be there for the CoD group, but the damage modelling is nice, although I haven't seen much of it outside of screenshots on SimHQ, however I did explode my radiator on the Hurricane yesterday (in a dogfight map the radiators should really be open when it starts if you're starting in the air) and the oil effects were nice and when I opened the canopy I saw flames coming down the side, so I quickly cut the fuel pump and feathered the prop and made a nice controlled ditch in the channel whereupon my pilot refused to bail out...ho-hum...
I've also since found that the radiator lever does work and is animated (at least on the Hurricane it is) and its lack of working initially was probably due to me not enabling the temperature damage module. Also, it seems the trim wheel on the Hurricane also works when I jacked the graphics up a bit...so it could be a graphics setting thing...which seems a bit daft but not entirely surprising.
I do agree though that this has a lot of promise, a LOT, and I really hope that the new guy who is heading up 1C on this after Olegs departure pursues this, and when you compare the engine sound in the first videos to come out after release with the engine sound now, there is definitely an improvement, and sound in any game is one of the most vital things to 'put you there' imho...so they're making good steps and I hope that 'Battle for Moscow' doesn't pull too many resources off the patch team for CloD.

[Oberon]

Here's some answers to some questions, it's good to note that they're not focusing on adding new stuff to CloD itself in terms of new models, but listening to the community about building on what they have in there already.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3480600

[GSpector]

Wow, thanks for the link. Great info there.

Just one question, What's this about a sequel?

[Raptor1]

Might as well add my own opinion of this, so here is Raptor's inconclusively conclusive conclusion on Cliffs of Duty:

First of all, performance. I'm running a slightly outdated system (Dual Core 3.0GHz CPU, 4GB RAM and Radeon HD 4870) with the latest preview Catalyst drivers and the Ubisoft intro logo renamed, which is supposed to help, and performance on (nearly) the highest settings is, while not as good as in IL-2, far better than I expected. So far I tested a battle over London with 36 aircraft (12 bombers and 24 fighters) and a battle over sea with 132 aircraft (36 bombers and 96 fighters), and frame rates were pretty good for most of both flights. The major drops occurred when looking directly at London, at which point the frame rate drops but not enough to render it unplayable (This is better than in IL-2, where looking at a major city would make the game extremely slow), as well as when combat was initially joined in both instances, where there were major lag spikes in both cases (Especially the latter one). Most smaller dogfights seem to run pretty well overall, especially when not over major cities.





Right, AI. I found that it seems to do nothing when given a free hunt order, but would engage when given an attack bombers or attack fighters order. As for performance, it displays traditional IL-2 AI h4x by nearly always being faster than you, and I don't think I've seen it stall either. Keeping a tight formation also seems to be still beyond its grasp, as I've seen multiple collisions in my tests, though it could well be that I've spawned them too close. On the other hand, I've been killed by an AI aircraft when pulling a sharp turn, which the AI in IL-2 was utterly unable to do. So, I really don't know what to make of it; more testing is in order.

I'm not going to comment on the FMs and DMs, as I don't really know enough to judge them. I know they apparently have problems, and that they're going to fix them, which is good. All I can really say is that I've been able to keep flying with damage that would've made your aircraft completely unflyable in IL-2, which seems right, but I can't be sure about that.

I haven't really bothered with the campaigns yet, but they seem pretty bad, especially the British one. IL-2's stock campaigns were never very good anyway. I wish they had the dynamic campaigns they promised, and hopefully they'll add that in a patch, expansion or something.

As for the rest. The FMB is significantly more useful than IL-2's, with loads of more features, which should help with making interesting missions. I really like the clickable cockpits and more complicated startup procedure, as well as the (apparently) more realistic engine management compared to IL-2, which sort of makes up for the significantly lesser amount of flyables. The new radio chatter is nice, since the AI actually tells you what grid it sees the enemy in, and I've also seen bombers call out what targets they're seeing. Having to open or eject the canopy when bailing out is a nice touch. Also, ammunition belt and bomb fuze customization.

On the other hand, it seems that radio commands are broken, and that they're working on fixing it. This is pretty big oversight, or it would be if the AI ever listened to what you were saying in IL-2. The interface is an absolute atrocity, and it makes IL-2's look like the most modern in the world. Anti-aliasing seems to not work very well even on the highest setting, especially on distant objects. Oh, and the Heartbreaker.

Overall, I don't find nearly as horrible as I thought it would be. It still needs a load of work, but at least they're still patching it, unlike a lot of other games these days. We shall have to wait and see how it turns out after a few patches and expansions.

And I don't find the (menu) music that bad, not nearly as much as IL-2's...

[Dowly]

Removing the logo if you have an ATI card definitely helps. I just learned about it as you
mentioned it and seeing how you are running the game well on very similar system as I have,
I tried the fix and I can now run it quite well on the high preset.

[Oberon]

Aha, that's more like it. Took the Mk I up and around and landed her again, parked her up, switched the engine off...and then the radiator broke.

So that's that niggle box ticked.

Still having framerate problems over land though...could be my Catalyst version. What version are you guys using? What in-game settings do you have? Any chance of some screenshots of the graphics settings section?

And Hunter...yes...the Blennie is a swine to start up isn't it? Had a few problems with the 109 myself, turns out the handbrake seemed to be on, and then I wobbled too much after take-off and crash landed again.

[Valantine]

Counter intuituive I know, but once parked up close the radiators and you'll not have any issues, seems to be the coolant being afterboiled by the residual heat in the engine, this tends to happen when engines are run with the minimal necessary coolant. Used to happen in my mates old Nissan quite regularly!
Shouldn;t happen all the time like it does in CloD though, but really, a minor niggle
V

[Egan]

I just got around to downloading it after buying it in the Steam sale. I've only tootled around for a few minutes so I can't anything remotely clever about it but I do have a couple of questions.

First, does the in game AA work? I've got it set to x4 and it still seems pretty jaggy. would it be better to run AA from my card drivers?

I tried a free flight QB. How do I choose which aircraft I want to fly? It starts with a Hurri but I can't see where to change it.

What's up with the landscape of southern England? Seriously, the colours look pretty mad. Almost tartan...

My framerates are a bit stuttery too, and that's with only one aircraft up. I'm running an I-7 920, 6 gigs of DDR3 and a 4870x2 and I'm kind of surprised by how low the FPS seem to be. Does anyone have any hints about improving performance? I have to get the new 11.12 drivers anyway but is there anything in the configs I could tweak?

I'll have others, I'm sure. I'm looking forward to a few little dogfights in this if I can get it working OK.

[HunterICX]

-The AA seems to be porked or not working properly.
-With ATI card you might want to delete or rename the logo.wmv in the \Steam\steamapps\common\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\parts\core\GUI
the ubi logo seems to mess up your clocks of the card ruining the performance in game.
-To change aircraft in a Quick battle of Single mission just click on the picture of the Hurricane to open the Aircraft selection menu (not really convenient how they made it)

HunterICX