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Old 07-12-2019, 08:00 AM   #31
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I've never mentioned 'war' or 'regime change' I'm talking about maintaing the navigation route through the Straits of Hormuz. Any entity threatening said navigation would be swiftly dealt with in a day or two even if a week or two.



exactley, something similar in nature to '88 Operation Praying Mantis
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:16 AM   #32
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HMS Duncan a Type 45 destroyer is enroute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48958359
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:34 AM   #33
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:22 AM   #34
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Digesting German and English wikipedia entries (they are not just translations of each other, but are different).


Type 45. Good ships, but not as good as they could have been. Economic superiority over Sheffield class, the ship runs 3-4 times as long with one load of fuel. 4-5 times as high capacity to track mutliple air targets simultaneously and fight them at medium and longer ranges - but only outdated Phalanx system close air defence, no missle-equipped CIWS (big mistake, imo, could become very costly in case of hot combat). Cannon of smaller callibre than initially wanted, sonar, but only helicopter for ASW, no own torpedo launcher. Some more wepaons cpould be armed later on, but it isd questionable that it will happen, due to the budget cuts and high costs of such refits. One or two ships got equipped with Harpoons, and all ships can be later equipped with 16 criuise msisile launch tubes.



Money was saved, by introducing some unneeded vulnerabilities, me thinks. Especially the lacking missile CWIS and only helicopters for ASW woudl irk me. In case of a sudden sub attack that was not deteced before, the ship has no option to react quickly by mounting pressure on the sub with own combat means, and the helicopter, admittedly the superior choice once engaged, if not by chance being on station would takes some minutes to get up. These ships are expensive, I think one saved at the wrong end here.



Montrose will soon return to base for resupply, then it will again be one British ship on station only.



How many US ships are on staiton at any time, does anyone know? I do not mean total number of units, but only those being on station at any given time. The rule of three usually says one third of units on duty, one third preparing for mission in harbour, one third undergoing maintenance.
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:02 AM   #35
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Montrose will soon return to base for resupply, then it will again be one British ship on station only.

Instead of returning home to the UK after a six to nine-month deployment, Montrose is being stationed in Bahrain until 2022 to ensure a permanent presence and spare warships the lengthy passage to and from Britain, time which could be spent on patrol in the Middle East.
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Old 07-13-2019, 10:31 AM   #36
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T45 is a decent European AAW FFG but does not shine in any other mission. While one ship can act as legal tripwire it is not going to be particularly usefull unless you begin running convoys.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:25 PM   #37
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Instead of returning home to the UK after a six to nine-month deployment, Montrose is being stationed in Bahrain until 2022 to ensure a permanent presence and spare warships the lengthy passage to and from Britain, time which could be spent on patrol in the Middle East.
Thats what I meant. Still, a ship in port is not on station. And it takes time to get back and forth. If such hijack attempts cannot be counterd by armed air/drone support of any kind, its only a question of time before a tanker will get hijacked for sure - and once Iranian troops are aboard, its theirs if not meeting superior armed resistence on board that drives them off again.

Last time they were lucky that the Montrose was close enough to reach the scene in time. Just a quarter of an hour or even ten minutes later, and the story maybe would be told differently today.
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Old 07-13-2019, 03:32 PM   #38
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T45 is a decent European AAW FFG but does not shine in any other mission. While one ship can act as legal tripwire it is not going to be particularly usefull unless you begin running convoys.
I tend to agree. Especially on the convoy thing.

Formally, T45 nevertheless is a DD.

Lets get some heavy machine guns and guided missile tripods on tankers and merchants - and the marines needed to operate them. Next have helicopter gunships on the ready (probably there are some somewhere already), and drones with long station time providing constant aerial surveillance.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:13 AM   #39
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DDG then if we are going all formal and American.



As to the armed troops onboard - then those become essentially RN ships and thus legitimate military targets if a war is declared. And you no longer need angry men on small boats to tinker with them - as Saudis found out land based AShMs work just fine.
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Old 07-14-2019, 05:29 AM   #40
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The horse trading has begun.

Quote:
Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said the Iranian tanker detained by Royal Marines near Gibraltar could be released, if the UK is guaranteed the oil is not bound for Syria.

The tanker, seized on 4 July, was suspected of breaking EU sanctions.

Iran claimed the seizure was "piracy". Iranian ships later tried to impede a British tanker, the UK claimed.

After "constructive" talks with Tehran, Mr Hunt said he was encouraged Iran has no desire to escalate the situation.

He said he reassured Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif that "our concern has always been destination, not origin of the oil" and that the UK would facilitate release "if we received sufficient guarantees that it would not be going to Syria".

He added that Mr Zarif wants to resolve the issue and was "not seeking to escalate".

However, the Iranian foreign minister insisted his country would continue its oil exports under any conditions.

In a statement issued after the phone conversation with Mr Hunt, Mr Zarif said the destination of the oil tanker was a legal one in the eastern Mediterranean, adding that Britain should quickly release the vessel.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/48977093
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Old 07-14-2019, 05:34 AM   #41
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And you no longer need angry men on small boats to tinker with them - as Saudis found out land based AShMs work just fine.
Which then is no longer a hijacking attempt, but an open war. Needless to say the Americans would not let that pass without an according reaction, which would be punishing. Maybe not knocking Iran out (hard to do), but very punishing for sure.


Of course there is an escalation ladder beyond this, but that is already the case right now and makes no real different anymore. And its in Iran's hand how far they wish to go.
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Old 07-14-2019, 05:37 AM   #42
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And its in Iran's hand how far they wish to go.
Precisely, the assets are already in place to meat out a swift reaction.
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