Stock Market update: Everybody panic!

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Politenessman

The problem with your idea Markus (as I understand it), is that it gives the company owner no incentive to own and operate a company, he is better off spending all his money on himself and creating few jobs in doing so.

The only thing worse than capitalism is everything else.

I guess you're right.

Let me take an example from Denmark and peoples medicine or the need for it.

In the latest economical issue between the state and the community, the state couldn't give the community extra money, due to this many hospital has to cut down on workers, why ?

Profit hunters-that's why-
The medicine that is made cost maybe a little more than last year, but there are those, without guilt, who would not hesitate to sell their own children for money or in this case earn big profit on sick people.

It was them I was thinking about when writing my post.

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Wait, I'm not talking about war or disaster

Well, in that case to come back to:

do you think the current generation is as capable as previous?

Then the answer has to be yes, but in different things because we live in a world which has changed radically between generations so that the strengths of one generation do not necessarily dictate the strengths of the next.

[Onkel Neal]

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

[ikalugin]

I wonder if one should regulate profits from reselling things, as such transactions do not generated added value.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

Just more expensive.
We commute faster, have better acces to information, food is of better quality (hygene wise), work places are safer... but we have to work more to afford things than our fathers had.

[ikalugin]

Classical example - globaly it is easier to procure a mobile phone than gain access to clean tap water. So while we do have things our fathers did not (ie my father had to go through significant efforts to procure his first pair of jeans), it is more difficult to acquire others (ie so called "organic" food).

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Classical example - globaly it is easier to procure a mobile phone than gain access to clean tap water. So while we do have things our fathers did not (ie my father had to go through significant efforts to procure his first pair of jeans), it is more difficult to acquire others (ie so called "organic" food).

90% of organic food is another market rip off. I know what organic food is because I grow my own garden. Off topic rant over.

I know what you mean. But our countries were closed off to the western markets before 1990. Maybe that's the problem. Everyyone had enough money ecause the shelves were empty. Now everyone is broke because we can buy anything we want (even what we don't need)

[ikalugin]

LWhich is why you could compare personal incomes in terms of goods baskets rather than monetary values. In those terms Soviets were ok untill the gorby times or so I was told.

So, to clarify my core point - even though basket has changed (we get new goods and services) I am not convinced that the basket has expanded significantly intrinsic value wise, globaly.

[Betonov]

Problem today is that a lot of people can only afford half a basket while some can afford 50 baskets while they need only one. And they can do that because the half basket people are too affraid to demand their one full basket becasue the greedy pigs at the top will force them out of that one half basket because fair wages will force them to only have 45 full baskets and that is socialism

[Politenessman]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I guess you're right.

Let me take an example from Denmark and peoples medicine or the need for it.

In the latest economical issue between the state and the community, the state couldn't give the community extra money, due to this many hospital has to cut down on workers, why ?

Profit hunters-that's why-
The medicine that is made cost maybe a little more than last year, but there are those, without guilt, who would not hesitate to sell their own children for money or in this case earn big profit on sick people.

It was them I was thinking about when writing my post.

Markus

I have to disagree with you Markus, many of us and many of our relatives are alive right now because making medicine is profitable, if it wasn't nobody would do it.

It is a very expensive process and very risky - lots of drugs get refused approval to go to market and the money spent on them is largely wasted (there are very few profitable "secondary uses" like Viagra, which was meant to be a heart drug for the elderly), so to stay in business drug companies must make a decent profit on the drugs that they can sell.

On an individual level, would you rent your house out for a trivial return, just so someone can have a roof over their head? remember you have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in the asset, various ongoing costs related to it and massive liability issues if the house falls down and injures someone.
So of course you want a return that justifies the investment and the risk.

The drug companies spend billions on research, another company could get to market at any time with a better or even just a cheaper product and make it valueless, a regulator could, for good or spurious reasons, deny the ability to sell it on any one of a number of grounds, if it gets to market there are any number of potential liability issues - it could have an adverse effect when combined with another drug or even with something as normal as grapefruit juice and there is the fear of the disaster scenario like thalidomide.
So of course the drug companies want a return that justifies the investment and the risk.

If you are religious thank your god for the profit motive.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

So, people haven't changed, but life has become more difficult?

Yes, in particular more expensive and more demanding. Human beings are expected to keep up with machinery and electronic transfer rates which are increasing in speed all the time.

Going back to college, take this for example:

[Onkel Neal]

Man, your researching prowess never fails to amaze. However, having two children who recently completed college and one who's midway through, I have a first-hand knowledge of the costs of higher education.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Man, your researching prowess never fails to amaze. However, having two children who recently completed college and one who's midway through, I have a first-hand knowledge of the costs of higher education.

Well, then, you know that if they were to pay back their costs of higher education, starting on the low end of the pay-scale it would take them longer to do so than it took yourself. Of course, each individual case varies depending on the employment they are able to achieve post-college and the possibilities for career advancement within that field.

Stepping back though, and looking at the bigger picture, you can see that in many instances across the board costs have risen above the rate of inflation and above the rate of pay increases. Of course this is not universal, in some things the cost have actually decreased, certain food items for example have become cheaper thanks to mass manufacturing and large food store chains, in the UK there is a small crisis emerging over the cost of milk versus how much profit diary farmers are able to make, it's a double-edged sword really because whilst people are sure to want to be able to assist dairy farmers I'm not so sure whether this assistance will extend to paying an extra few quid for their milk.

I'm not saying that things were much easier in the past, that's a fallacy and the result of rose-tinted spectacles. Of course there were difficulties, but they were of a different kind, but equally one cannot say that everything has become easier for people in this age. Some things have, but other things have become more difficult.

[Onkel Neal]

College costs definitely has made things more difficult for this generation. No doubt. I also just finished paying off my own degree (hotel management, ha!). Yeah, as far as college goes, things are very different.

Also, I'm sure it varies according to region. Your hometown is probably very different from mine.

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along. I know some who have new cars, and nice homes in the $150-250K range. Adjusted for inflation (which has been extremely low for a long, long time here), the homes are about the same cost to income ratio. Some of the guys I worked with at the cycle shop still live in apartments and paycheck to paycheck, but they refuse to get better paying jobs. I know, I talked with them about it--why work retail for $11 an hour when Houston is full of chemical plants hiring and paying $25? They just don't want to do that kind of work. So, what do they expect?

I grew up in the 70s, I remember what it was like then. It was easier than when my father grew up. And I raised children in the 90s and 2000s, they had it pretty good. I'll have to ask them if they think life is harder now than before, that will be interesting...

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

College costs definitely has made things more difficult for this generation. No doubt. I also just finished paying off my own degree (hotel management, ha!). Yeah, as far as college goes, things are very different.

Also, I'm sure it varies according to region. Your hometown is probably very different from mine.

But I still contend in most other areas, life is easier for this generation. I took a mental survey of everyone I know under 30; young friends, young adult children of friends, etc. and I have to say, they are at the same place I was at that age, some better, some not as well along. I know some who have new cars, and nice homes in the $150-250K range. Adjusted for inflation (which has been extremely low for a long, long time here), the homes are about the same cost to income ratio. Some of the guys I worked with at the cycle shop still live in apartments and paycheck to paycheck, but they refuse to get better paying jobs. I know, I talked with them about it--why work retail for $11 an hour when Houston is full of chemical plants hiring and paying $25? They just don't want to do that kind of work. So, what do they expect?

I grew up in the 70s, I remember what it was like then. It was easier than when my father grew up. And I raised children in the 90s and 2000s, they had it pretty good. I'll have to ask them if they think life is harder now than before, that will be interesting...

Well, exactly, but we didn't say that every aspect of life was more difficult for this generation, only certain factors, such as finance. There are plenty of other instances where life is easier, I've seen enough documentaries about life in the Victorian era to know that my lot today is vastly improved than it would be in that era.
But, of course, with each improvement we also make new complications, and that in turn makes life more difficult in some areas. The rise of people suffering with depression possibly points to this, or equally it can also point towards a better recognition of the subject.

Besides, the question was that whether the current generation is as capable as the previous, and I maintain that they are but in different ways.