[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I'm whining again! My v.053 campaign has progressed to July 1944. I took the offered Twin 40 AA guns, hoping that there was something in my system that had caused the CTD when attempting to fire one of them. No joy. In fact, the last CTD came when I personally manned the gun and attempted to train it up to the left.

I had started this campaign with a total reload and cleansing of my system with anything suggesting SH4, whether in a directory or the Register. I also ran GameBooster4, that turned off all unnecessary Processes and Services my Win7 Pro was running, leaving only the essentials for video, sound, and keyboard/mouse, plus a few I cannot readily associate with an application. The only mod running in the clean game was v.053.

What I noticed about having the Twin 40's (other that the CTD) was that there was only one available crew slot per gun in the F7 display (shouldn't there be two?), the same as for the single barrel 40's, and those were in a manned and ready status. Then, when I looked at the forward Twin 40 mount from the bridge (F4), there were no gunners present (in view). Someone a ways back I recall a theory being advanced that there was something in the crew slots that may be causing the CTDs. In any event, my attempts to use the Twin 40's failed with a CTD. I am hoping one of the mod team can delve into this, as I'd really like to have the extra firepower the Twin 40's should provide. Thanks!

Took a bit to find it, since it's back before p250 (244), but here it is:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...73#post2461973

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Hope I can squeeze in between this mission slowdown issue.

I've just come up for air, with nearly two weeks worth of time involved in getting things right. I plan to upload my work (maybe tomorrow) to the hidden Google site for incorporating into the next FOTRS Ultimate release.

Some time ago, this issue was noted:



As was pointed out, jldjs found he only had 4 of the 6 forward tubes on his boat after an upgrade. Now I'm not 100% sure, but it doesn't help to have the Balao files for its torpedoes having this kind of gap in its calendar:



Notice the "default" MK14 torpedoes ends on the last day of the year 1942, when the MK23's pick up on January 2nd 1943?! Of all the things a computer can do....it counts very well. Having gaps in time for two specific Balao torpedo tubes, during the very period of time jldjs has his upgraded issue....I think there's a connection.....and a cure coming.

It's these kinds of upgrade/refit issues I've been working on that I'm just about done with. I think you'll find a difference and happily find these issues will soon be forgotten with the game. It's my hope that when a refit or upgrade of a conning tower takes place, the transition will go smother than its been. I'm hoping upgrading from one boat to another will be without a hitch too.



The above "Crew Management" screen is how things will look (its a 1024x768 res screen image...that's why the compass is covering some of the lower AA gun slots). You're going to find most of the "slots" are filled, and you're going to have a couple of the "start out" crew have a Guns Qualification that FOTRS didn't have. And, there won't be a Watch Crew Qualification crewman sitting in the Torpedo section, or a Sensors man winding up in the Engine room. Their going to be starting in their proper place, leaving it up to you to move them if you wish.

Speaking of choices, you're going to find specific weapons will be offered, at specific times for all boats. The default Deck Gun will be the Stern 3"50 Caliber for all boats. However at specific intervals you'll be able to upgrade to a 4"50, then a 5"25....choosing either a Stern, or Bow. There are a few exceptions, the Narwhal will only have twin 4"50's; the S-Class will only have Bow mount deck guns, a choice of all three as time allows. There will be an offer to purchase the twin 5"25's after Jan. 1945 for most of the other subs. Sorry, but its impossible to get two camera's to work with the deck guns as it does with the smaller AA guns.....its a game thing, there's no script for the deck guns like there are with the two AA guns.



The smaller guns will follow the deck guns...... in that, the default weapon will be the .50 Caliber Browning for all boats (I put it on the S-Class, Start of War Conning Tower). As time allows, the 20mm's will come before the 40mm's (single and twin). These upgrades will be offered with the purchase of Renown while your in port.

As expected, filling the crew slots in the Crew Management screen is required for manning the guns:



I've added a crew of 4 to the deck guns.....a crew leader, and a loader (sorry, he's only going to stand near the breach). As this Narwhal shows, the 4"50's are manned, and the AA 20mm is out of the "hole" the stock game has it in on this early war tower. I just couldn't see shooting the heck out of the sides of the rear tower because of the low pedestal mount. I raised it up:



I also, made some different looking Ammunition for the guns. The 20mm looks different than the 40, the DG is different still. I also put Flak Burst shells in play for the 20, 40, and 5"25 DG.







You'll still have Armor Piercing, and High Explosive shells with the guns. All ammunition are color coded....... Black projectile for the AP, Green with a Red tip for HE, solid Green with a White band for the Anti-Aircraft Burst shell.

The other thing I became concerned with was that constant "Yes Sir", "Yes Sir", "Yes Sir"..... after making a command! TheBeast mentioned something the other day that put me to thinking about it. With some lengthy trial and error (there are 27 different voice "Yes Sir's" that are possible culprits) I was able to get rid of the repeat phrase. You'll hear it one time, and that's it.

Seems I've left out some things, I can't remember them now....anyway, these changes will be in our next public release.

... and that's not all that the Capn has for the next release... stay tuned to this channel for further developements!...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I'm whining again! My v.053 campaign has progressed to July 1944. I took the offered Twin 40 AA guns, hoping that there was something in my system that had caused the CTD when attempting to fire one of them. No joy. In fact, the last CTD came when I personally manned the gun and attempted to train it up to the left.

I had started this campaign with a total reload and cleansing of my system with anything suggesting SH4, whether in a directory or the Register. I also ran GameBooster4, that turned off all unnecessary Processes and Services my Win7 Pro was running, leaving only the essentials for video, sound, and keyboard/mouse, plus a few I cannot readily associate with an application. The only mod running in the clean game was v.053.

What I noticed about having the Twin 40's (other that the CTD) was that there was only one available crew slot per gun in the F7 display (shouldn't there be two?), the same as for the single barrel 40's, and those were in a manned and ready status. Then, when I looked at the forward Twin 40 mount from the bridge (F4), there were no gunners present (in view). Someone a ways back I recall a theory being advanced that there was something in the crew slots that may be causing the CTDs. In any event, my attempts to use the Twin 40's failed with a CTD. I am hoping one of the mod team can delve into this, as I'd really like to have the extra firepower the Twin 40's should provide. Thanks!

Thank you torpedobait for the report.

No!! you're not whining!! I love you guys trying all things out and reporting on what you find. That's what we want.

I'll have to fire up 0.53 and try it again with the Twin 40.....I didn't have an issue with it before...that's why I put it into the mod. Seemed to work as expected to me, but I'll look into it again.

You say your mission was July, 1944. What boat? (although that shouldn't matter). Is this a new game Campaign mission, or a continuation of a presently running Campaign....with a mission starting July 1944? This may make a difference, because when I've run a new Campaign mission....starting mid 1944. The gun had worked, and displayed with its crew just fine.

If you don't mind, clean out your Documents/SH4 folder. Start the game, resetting your game resolution/options you like to use in the "Options" menu area, then exit the game to "set" these into the game. Restart the game again, this time go to "Mid 1944" for a Campaign start....use the same base, same boat you used before. In the Captain's Office, purchase the Twin 40 for your boat, put it either fore or aft mount, then start the mission. What do you have now?

One thing you mentioned about the Twin 40, you need to make sure you have both slots in the Crew Management page (that "F7" page) filled with a crewman. Move two crewmen into the vacant slots so they appear when you "man" the gun and look from the outside cameras.

==============

Propbeanie, just read your post. I thought those changes regarding the Twin 40 are what's in the present public release?!? Maybe I'm all wet in thinking the gun is messed up if those changes haven't hit the public release yet!! I'll have to look......I may be barking up the wrong tree torpedobait, my "fix" may not be in the latest beta, that isn't in your beta.

Where did I leave my shoes???

[JoeSnow]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Welcome to JoeSnow!

Your interpretation of the "Speed factor" parameter is correct for what it does. However, the "Surface factor" has to do with the readable size of an object at its maximum distance....based on square meter measurement.

Thank you for the welcome!

And thank you for correcting me regarding "Surface Factor". The best part about being wrong is it gives me an opportunity to learn!

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by JoeSnow

Thank you for the welcome!

And thank you for correcting me regarding "Surface Factor". The best part about being wrong is it gives me an opportunity to learn!

Joe, you look like you've got a good knowledge base already!!

[JoeSnow]

Thank You Capn!

Some notes perhaps of interest.

The sonar systems that Ducimus used were not historically accurate. I'm pretty sure he said this himself at some point. He was trying to achieve Fun gameplay over historical accuracy and I applaud what he did, so no barbs intended...

I did a couple sonar mods in the past and set it up historically as to range and verticle depth angle. It was nasty and could take hours to lose an elite escort in good weather conditions. Not really most peoples definition of fun .

Getting a good balance of historical accuarcy and fun in this regard is...challenging. While I presoanlly feel that Ducimus' ASW/evasion was a too fast paced, it may be a good place to start. Might even be a good place to park! I can't recommend using my mod even though I like it. It tends to be tedious.

The problems I see with ASW are mainly hardcoded and not modifiable. An escort should have little chance of detection for about 10 minutes after a depthcharge attack due to the turbulence the explosions caused. Can't do it in the game. Calm seas are actually bad active sonar conditions as prop wash is not cancelled by wave action. On calm days, the sun actually can create a layer around periscope depth (called afternoon effect) but that's not how the game is hard-coded so...

I also made my own camapaign that I never released to the public. The reason I did not release it is because it contains much of Lurkers work and he was always sensitive to that kind of thing (understandably). He did fantastic work with historical TFs and such but I always thought his convoy routing was more (too) predictable than historical. My shipping routes are much more dynamic with a lot of ocean space so you have to hunt/get lucky more often than with his original campaign. It wasn't tricky to do but sure was a PITA setting up all those routes according to correct dates and cargo types. Took me a long time and I actually bought a WWII geography book with all bases and dates to help me. I can get you those files if you'd like to see what I did but still am not really comfortable releasing it in respect to what Lurker did. I'm not completely sure how it would work with the changes to ships you all are working with anyway but I think there is enough random to it that it wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway--I'm pretty late to this party and it looks like you all have a good handle on things so I won't ask to get involved. I'm just kind of throwing my hat in the ring so to speak. I'd be very interested in helping you test sonar and sensors systems if you want. Also, if you're looking for anything relating to RND convoy routing for a campaign, I may be able to help out with some of that tedious busy work. Not looking for credit--I'm too old to care lol. I just want SH4 to be the best it can be for everyone. Still the best subsim on the horizon IMO.

[keltos01]

was a PITA setting up all those routes according to correct dates and cargo types. Took me a long time and I actually bought a WWII geography book with all bases and dates to help me.

do you have intel on US traffic ?

wrong thread for this I suppose

keltos

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

...

==============

Propbeanie, just read your post. I thought those changes regarding the Twin 40 are what's in the present public release?!? Maybe I'm all wet in thinking the gun is messed up if those changes haven't hit the public release yet!! I'll have to look......I may be barking up the wrong tree torpedobait, my "fix" may not be in the latest beta, that isn't in your beta.

Where did I leave my shoes???

I can't find my glasses, with which to try to find my shoes, which I can't remember where they are anyway... where's the mouse?...

I do not recall if the gun fix made it. We'll have to have RR tell us... I thought it was going to be part of the next public beta, but it might well already be in there... in which case, we'll blame torpedobait for turning us into old fahrtz...

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by JoeSnow

...

I also made my own camapaign that I never released to the public. The reason I did not release it is because it contains much of Lurkers work and he was always sensitive to that kind of thing (understandably). He did fantastic work with historical TFs and such but I always thought his convoy routing was more (too) predictable than historical. My shipping routes are much more dynamic with a lot of ocean space so you have to hunt/get lucky more often than with his original campaign. It wasn't tricky to do but sure was a PITA setting up all those routes according to correct dates and cargo types. Took me a long time and I actually bought a WWII geography book with all bases and dates to help me. I can get you those files if you'd like to see what I did but still am not really comfortable releasing it in respect to what Lurker did. I'm not completely sure how it would work with the changes to ships you all are working with anyway but I think there is enough random to it that it wouldn't be an issue.
...

There is nothing preventing you from looking in the Support folder of the mod, getting s7rikeback's spreadsheet out, and using that to change your ship and plane calls to match, then submit your version of the campaign as a mod - hint hint hint... Of course, you'd have to do your due diligence for permissions, etc. The first page of the thread has the download link to the v0.53 Public Beta - we can always use another tester.

[cdrsubron7]

I'm playing around with some things and am wondering what files would have to do with the spinning of the propellers and firing of guns from AI ships ingame? Anybody help me out?

Originally Posted by JoeSnow

Some notes perhaps of interest.

The sonar systems that Ducimus used were not historically accurate. I'm pretty sure he said this himself at some point. He was trying to achieve Fun gameplay over historical accuracy and I applaud what he did, so no barbs intended...

I did a couple sonar mods in the past and set it up historically as to range and verticle depth angle. It was nasty and could take hours to lose an elite escort in good weather conditions. Not really most peoples definition of fun .

Getting a good balance of historical accuarcy and fun in this regard is...challenging. While I presoanlly feel that Ducimus' ASW/evasion was a too fast paced, it may be a good place to start. Might even be a good place to park! I can't recommend using my mod even though I like it. It tends to be tedious.

The problems I see with ASW are mainly hardcoded and not modifiable. An escort should have little chance of detection for about 10 minutes after a depthcharge attack due to the turbulence the explosions caused. Can't do it in the game. Calm seas are actually bad active sonar conditions as prop wash is not cancelled by wave action. On calm days, the sun actually can create a layer around periscope depth (called afternoon effect) but that's not how the game is hard-coded so...

I also made my own camapaign that I never released to the public. The reason I did not release it is because it contains much of Lurkers work and he was always sensitive to that kind of thing (understandably). He did fantastic work with historical TFs and such but I always thought his convoy routing was more (too) predictable than historical. My shipping routes are much more dynamic with a lot of ocean space so you have to hunt/get lucky more often than with his original campaign. It wasn't tricky to do but sure was a PITA setting up all those routes according to correct dates and cargo types. Took me a long time and I actually bought a WWII geography book with all bases and dates to help me. I can get you those files if you'd like to see what I did but still am not really comfortable releasing it in respect to what Lurker did. I'm not completely sure how it would work with the changes to ships you all are working with anyway but I think there is enough random to it that it wouldn't be an issue.

@JoeSnow

I would like to register for your modifications.
If I have understood you correctly, make these changes make the game more difficult and/or more authentic?

This would be well then in good hands in my ModSoup for TMO_RSRDC_OTC aka ModPack for SH4 V1.5 ...
If I was suitable, I would like to integrate your Modi as "Optionals" into the ModPack.

Greetings Ralle

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Thank you torpedobait for the report.

No!! you're not whining!! I love you guys trying all things out and reporting on what you find. That's what we want.

I'll have to fire up 0.53 and try it again with the Twin 40.....I didn't have an issue with it before...that's why I put it into the mod. Seemed to work as expected to me, but I'll look into it again.

You say your mission was July, 1944. What boat? (although that shouldn't matter). Is this a new game Campaign mission, or a continuation of a presently running Campaign....with a mission starting July 1944? This may make a difference, because when I've run a new Campaign mission....starting mid 1944. The gun had worked, and displayed with its crew just fine.

If you don't mind, clean out your Documents/SH4 folder. Start the game, resetting your game resolution/options you like to use in the "Options" menu area, then exit the game to "set" these into the game. Restart the game again, this time go to "Mid 1944" for a Campaign start....use the same base, same boat you used before. In the Captain's Office, purchase the Twin 40 for your boat, put it either fore or aft mount, then start the mission. What do you have now?

One thing you mentioned about the Twin 40, you need to make sure you have both slots in the Crew Management page (that "F7" page) filled with a crewman. Move two crewmen into the vacant slots so they appear when you "man" the gun and look from the outside cameras.

==============

Propbeanie, just read your post. I thought those changes regarding the Twin 40 are what's in the present public release?!? Maybe I'm all wet in thinking the gun is messed up if those changes haven't hit the public release yet!! I'll have to look......I may be barking up the wrong tree torpedobait, my "fix" may not be in the latest beta, that isn't in your beta.

Where did I leave my shoes???

I am in USS Balao (SS-285) continuing a career that started at Pearl on 12/8/41. I completed 17 patrols so far, progressing from a Sargo Class to a Gato and then to the Balao. After transferring to Midway in early 1944, the Twin 40mm's were first available on 6/24/44 when I returned to Midway from a patrol.

I think this is important. There were always only one crew slot per AA gun regardless of the dates or gun configurations. When I was able to upgrade to a single 40mm from the twin 20mm, the crew slots did not also upgrade - there has always only been one per gun.

I do not believe the fixes described above are in release v0.53. As reported earlier, I did a clean total reinstall, deleting all SH4 references in the Register, and all SH4 folders, including the ones in My Documents. This was followed by copying my pristine install of V.3, with patching to v.4, and then to V.5 to a Silent_Hunter_IV folder in C:\Games\Ubisoft. I then added the public release of FOTARS Ultimate v.053 via JSGME, with no other options. I started the game, set my options for sound, video and gameplay, exited the game, and then restarted. All my options were available. After selecting a new career and boat, I set my gameplay options via the radio in the office. I play at 75% reality, not caring to do the math for manual targeting (that's why I have a crew), and I leave the external camera on for the eye candy factor.
BTW, this is exactly the process and settings I used for v0.52, where the gun slots were the same as I experiences under v0.53.

After all this, it may well be that the changes are going to be in v0.54 and were never included in v0.53. I hope that is the case!

Please let me know if you still want me to delete my current career for a single test of the July 1944 events as you described above. Not sure that it would change anything!

[torpedobait]

On several assigned patrols in a current career under FOTARSU v0.52 (and other versions before that) my orders were to transport either soldiers or agents to a point and set them ashore. With only one exception where the sea was glassy smooth, launching the raft resulted in a wave immediately flipping the raft upside down even before anyone boarded. The intended passengers then boarded the raft, also upside down, and proceeded on their merry way. While this does not affect gameplay as far as I can tell, it is a bit disconcerting to see those guys in such a deplorable condition! They are paddling away like mad, bodies under water and paddles in the air!

Is there a way to make the life rafts more stable? Someone has done work on them previously, because I recall seeing them spinning wildly hundreds of feet in the air after leaving a sinking ship! That seems to have stopped. Don't mind seeing the enemy having a tough time in a raft, but my guys need to be able to survive the raft trip to shore. Thanks!

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

On several assigned patrols in a current career under FOTARSU v0.52 (and other versions before that) my orders were to transport either soldiers or agents to a point and set them ashore. With only one exception where the sea was glassy smooth, launching the raft resulted in a wave immediately flipping the raft upside down even before anyone boarded. The intended passengers then boarded the raft, also upside down, and proceeded on their merry way. While this does not affect gameplay as far as I can tell, it is a bit disconcerting to see those guys in such a deplorable condition! They are paddling away like mad, bodies under water and paddles in the air!

Is there a way to make the life rafts more stable? Someone has done work on them previously, because I recall seeing them spinning wildly hundreds of feet in the air after leaving a sinking ship! That seems to have stopped. Don't mind seeing the enemy having a tough time in a raft, but my guys need to be able to survive the raft trip to shore. Thanks!

I usually back up at the time of launch to prevent hearing those metal crunching sounds.. and flipping the raft..

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by JoeSnow

I'm pretty sure surface factor relates to sea state (0-15 weather) and speed factor is a detection factor of the speed of a specific target/ship.

Thermal layers unfortunately, are not dynamic in SH and are hard coded as far as I know. I don't believe fractions work ie--it has to be a whole number 1/2/3. Your numbers look right as I recall.

I don't remember exact names of Japanese sonar systems in WWII but they are in the files (Type 93 and 95?). I do know that Japanese active systems had a range of ~2500 yards with an angle down of about 16 degrees. Sensitivity/Surface Factor/Aspect of submarine (Angle on Bow)really play into these ranges. Their sonar was actually quite good.

Passive systems were excellent but rarely were a factor of making initial contact with a submarine unless they already suspected one was in the area. Even then, active systems prevailed for making initial contact.

It's been years since I messed with this sim. Just got the hankering to do a little patrolling so reinstalled 3 days ago with RFB and my modified campaign. Read through quite a bit of this project thread today and it looks good. I used to mod a LOT but it's been years. My 1st subsim was Gato for the C64.

If you want any tech stuff on sonars, let me know. I'm familiar with Allied systems but I think I can dig up something for Japanese as well.

Impressive project RR!

Thanks for the offer. I believe that passive sonar systems are making the majority of initial contacts in the game. This isn't because someone made a mistake. It's that evil Ducimus making the game more "challenging" and torturing us even now!

[Rockin Robbins]

Okay, I was under the impression that we were waiting for some features before releasing v0.54 to the public. Are we in favor of releasing as is and continuing what's not quite ready to the next version?

I don't have a problem with that. I just want to make sure everyone is on the right page. That would allow the public to test out what we have so far of the Aleutians campaign and some of CapnScurvy's fixes.

Sound off guys! Yea or nay?