SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > Silent Hunter III
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-20, 07:16 PM   #1
jorgegonzalito
Officer
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Posts: 237
Downloads: 322
Uploads: 0
Default 50 feet under the keel? No way!

In a simple GWX mission, a convoy is ordered to attack the coastal area of Charleston, USA. The mission begins - as usual - with the convoy about ten miles or less from the U-boat. We are in shallow water and the depth below the keel is just 50 feet! Am I exaggerating or is it a suicide attack, more typical of Japanese fanaticism than of the thinking brain of a German? With that depth at the time the submarine is detected by the planes and escort ships, it will be doomed and with it all its crew, because it will not be able to dive deep nor can it escape submerged with the poor speed that its electric motors give it. Wouldn't it be more sensible to wait for the convoy in deeper water and attack it, if there is a way to know what the usual routes they use?
In the avatar I appear as a doctor of the red cross, but I am not a conscientious objector, if I have to fight I do it fiercely, but I always risk if I see I have a chance of winning. Otherwise I would be foolish, it is not only my life that I put at risk, don't you think?
jorgegonzalito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-20, 07:32 PM   #2
bstanko6
Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Murwik Naval Academy
Posts: 2,122
Downloads: 390
Uploads: 13


Default

It is commanders discretion. But yes, I would wait for deeper waters.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
BSTANKO6'S SH5 NAVAL ACADEMY
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPbe...W2NArCA/videos

DISCORD
https://discord.gg/6tFeTSUmVc
bstanko6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-20, 05:41 AM   #3
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 180,040
Downloads: 63
Uploads: 13


Default

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-20, 09:55 AM   #4
Randomizer
Watch Officer
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 334
Downloads: 131
Uploads: 0


Default

What Jimbuna says.

You really should read up about some Drumbeat patrols and the Inshore Campaign of 1944-45. Of course in the latter, casualties were heavy and successes few but shallow water ops were definitely ordered by BdU and executed by aggressive commanders when opportunity arose.

-C
Randomizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-20, 03:54 PM   #5
jorgegonzalito
Officer
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Posts: 237
Downloads: 322
Uploads: 0
Default yes Randomizer but....

A submarine commander is not Mandrake, and Doenitz had no trouble giving those orders, since the only thing that could happen to him is to cut himself while shaving in the morning.
jorgegonzalito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-20, 04:56 PM   #6
Randomizer
Watch Officer
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 334
Downloads: 131
Uploads: 0


Default

I have no idea who or what a Mandrake is but it seems clear that you don't seem to be having very much fun with SH3.

Or for that matter understanding how subordinates do not get to select which orders to follow and which to just say "No thanks, I'll sit this one out." You can do so in the game but then you brought up real life with:

Quote:
Doenitz had no trouble giving those orders, since the only thing that could happen to him is to cut himself while shaving in the morning
Doenitz did his time as a U-Boat commander, as a torpedo boat flotilla leader, a cruiser captain and then as BdU. Presumably he followed orders as best he could and expected his subordinates to do the same. Invoking his distance from the front in a game context is actually a pretty disingenuous and even dishonest unless it's applied equally to practically every senior commander in the 20th Century. Doing that will just display a massive ignorance of how military's function in the real world.

While I am not a fan of Doenitz for a variety of reasons, implying that he was indifferent is just plain garbage unsupported by any evidence.

We get it, you don't like the game, you don't like shallow water ops (who does but sometimes they're necessary), you don't like the fatigue model (use SH3 Commander and turn it off) and you have no idea how a naval command hierarchy actually works.

-C
Randomizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-20, 11:27 PM   #7
jorgegonzalito
Officer
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Posts: 237
Downloads: 322
Uploads: 0
Default Don't be mad at me Randomizer!

Sometimes I forget that I may be talking to someone from another generation long after mine, excuse me. Mandrake was a famous comic book magician of my time (I was born in 1950), who dressed in an impeccable tuxedo and could solve anything. Regarding Doenitz, I have read a lot about the Second World War, I know that he was not a bad subject, I know that he was a submarine commander in the 1914-1918 war. But in those years the technology was very primitive, there was neither asdic nor sonar, and the Allied antisubmarine tactics were not as deadly effective. It is not that I do not like the game, if I did I would leave it and dedicate myself to something else, what I do not like are certain things that the game has, which have little to do with reality, and I am not the only one since many have worked on creating mods to eliminate various impossible or annoying situations. I also know what discipline and hierarchies are, because I was a police sergeant in my country, and there were also those who gave foolish orders that deep down they knew they couldn't be carried out. It is a simple matter of philosophy, if they send you to the slaughterhouse, look for an alternative path.
jorgegonzalito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-20, 03:44 PM   #8
Randomizer
Watch Officer
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 334
Downloads: 131
Uploads: 0


Default

Thank you for the civil reply. As for Mandrake I seem to recall that he was a Marvel Comic bad guy from back in the 1960's but since I have not read one of these in almost sixty-years the name may have some other applicability today.

Realism in gaming is always a loaded topic full of red-herrings and I have come to believe that you bring it to the game in how you play. If you wait for the game publishers to provide it you will be waiting forever. But we can differ on this point.

Perhaps this is why the NYGM Mod is high on my list of favourite versions of SH3. What it lacks in eye-candy is more than made up for in the situations that arise chasing a convoy in 1942 or early 43 or prowling around the British Isles in late 1944.

We're probably more alike than different, me being a 1955-model and retired veteran of more than 28-years in my country's Field Artillery and another 12 in Search and Rescue.

Cheers.

-C
Randomizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-20, 07:44 PM   #9
John Pancoast
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Minnysoda
Posts: 3,162
Downloads: 488
Uploads: 4


Default

As eluded to earlier, look at the historical Drumbeat patrols. There were numerous very successful patrols in such shallow US waters during it.
__________________
"Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper
John Pancoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.