Wuhan virus 2020 - Page 508

mapuc · 07-25-21, 12:09 PM

Here's why my brain is in conflict on almost daily basis.

Some weeks ago I read in a Swedish article saying that even people who had been infected by the first corona (Strain S I think it was)was immun against this Delta Variant.

Then some days ago I read in a Danish Article quoting an English newspaper that even those who had been infected with corona earlier was not protected fully against Delta Variant.

If I remember how sick my Elderly sister was, even though she got her flu vaccine, which became useless since that year Influenza mutated earlier.
And I how during a influenza season was knocked out two times

So the Danish/English article would be more correct. Even though you have had corona before or been vaccinated does not prevent you from getting the Delta Variant.

Which has been said many times..the vaccine does not protect you from the virus, it has a high protection in preventing you from getting very sick

Markus

3catcircus · 07-25-21, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Here's why my brain is in conflict on almost daily basis.

Some weeks ago I read in a Swedish article saying that even people who had been infected by the first corona (Strain S I think it was)was immun against this Delta Variant.

Then some days ago I read in a Danish Article quoting an English newspaper that even those who had been infected with corona earlier was not protected fully against Delta Variant.

If I remember how sick my Elderly sister was, even though she got her flu vaccine, which became useless since that year Influenza mutated earlier.
And I how during a influenza season was knocked out two times

So the Danish/English article would be more correct. Even though you have had corona before or been vaccinated does not prevent you from getting the Delta Variant.

Which has been said many times..the vaccine does not protect you from the virus, it has a high protection in preventing you from getting very sick

Markus

The concern is how many people still get sick from covid even though they are vaccinated - it's quite high. Compare that to how many people still get sick from flu or measles or chickenpox after being vaccinated. You don't hear that happening too often - but an Israeli flight attendant who was vaccinated fell into a coma after getting measles.

How many people who get HPV vaccine to prevent cancer later in life are still going to get cancer?

It's quite interesting that the information regarding measles stars that is you were born before 1957, you're likely *immune* because of how widespread it was. But if you were born after 1957, but can't locate your records, you can get a blood test to tell your level of protection.

One more data point that people keep saying that gets dismissed: natural immunity after getting infected is better than a vaccine.

I got chickenpox as a child. I'm never going to get chickenpox again (although I could develop shingles). People who've had viruses that are relatively stable are effectively immune. For flu, coronaviruses, rhinoviruses, they mutate so quickly that you will be playing catch-up trying to guess which strain will be common every year to build a vaccine each year.

No one yet knows the level of effective immunity to each new strain if you've had covid already primarily because so many people have actually had the first strains of covid without knowing it already unless they subsequently decided to get tested for antibodies. Something that isn't going to happen outside if western nations

Skybird · 07-25-21, 02:40 PM

The Covid vaccine is about keeping people out of hospitals and raising their chance of letting them escape a serious cause of the desease. The vaccines lower the risk of getting infected, but do not bring infections to nill. And nthat was cvlear and was said form all start on.
Not even close to that, regarding Delta.

But we have reports from the US, Canada, Germany, Ireland, the UK, France, Israel etc etc - those they see in hospitals currently, who are seriously ill, by totally overwhelming majority are unvaccinated people.

And then there are the deaths at hopsital. And what do we see there? Plenty of old people with seriosu comorbidities like adiposiutas, diabetes, cardiovascular desease.

But double-vaccinated younger people without serious comorbidities - are they dying in high scores anymore, do they overwhelm the hopsitals in numbers? No. Far from it. They are almost not there currently.

You want to mislead people there, 3catcircus.

The efficiency of vaccines can vary with age, and vaccines often are given in lower doses to older people to not trigger paradox vaccination symtpoms from their weakened (due to age) immune systems.

Flu vaccines are not 100% effective - far from it. Their efficiency, changing by season and age groups, vary form year to year, mostly are between 20-25%, and 45 to 50%. The flu vaccination campaigns do not erase flu nor do they prevent infections. They just push chances in favour of the vaccinated, sometimes more, sometimes less and they help to keep the scale of the seasonal flu "pandemic" at a lower level than without vaccination.

If its true what the yhave found on Delta, thats its intial virus load is 1200 times higher than with earlier variants of Covid-19, this explains why infection numbers are going up currently. We also know sinc eover one year that intiial virus load is a key factor deciding on the severity of the illness in the indoviodual. The vaccine help to b attle and bring down these loads from early on. I know no argument why this should not be helpful. It makes no sense to agitate against it.

Getting the vaccine alter chances in your favour. They make you less a risk for others, you will be less a factor that spreads the desease in case you got infected.

Herd immunity is a myth with Covid 19, still. It seems it cannot be acchieved with Covid-19.

I slowly give up my former belief - and hope - that the virus will just become endemic and will become toothless, more harmless, like a seasonal flu. In the light of its possible artificial origin, if that turns out to bbe true it means that it does not play by the usual rulebook for naturally formed virusses and how these interact with the environment and their host and over time become endemic. I think it is more likely to be set for becoming nastier. If I would be asked to guess a number for that, I would guess chances to be 60:40. Thats a guess. A guts feeling.

Seen this way, I see the current vaccines as a temporary but essentially necessary measure. Their usefulness probaly has limited longevity. Both new vaccines and better drugs for treating Covid-19 are needed. Our treatments still kill too much.

And then ther eis Long Covid, even in children not sufferign from severe symptoms during infection, even bei asymptomtic. Long Covid nevertheless can and does catch them, like adults.

Tuesday Noon I get my second shot. Then another 12-14 days until my possible maximum immunity effect should have formed up.

Rockstar · 07-25-21, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Here's why my brain is in conflict on almost daily basis.

Some weeks ago I read in a Swedish article saying that even people who had been infected by the first corona (Strain S I think it was)was immun against this Delta Variant.

Then some days ago I read in a Danish Article quoting an English newspaper that even those who had been infected with corona earlier was not protected fully against Delta Variant.

If I remember how sick my Elderly sister was, even though she got her flu vaccine, which became useless since that year Influenza mutated earlier.
And I how during a influenza season was knocked out two times

So the Danish/English article would be more correct. Even though you have had corona before or been vaccinated does not prevent you from getting the Delta Variant.

Which has been said many times..the vaccine does not protect you from the virus, it has a high protection in preventing you from getting very sick

Markus

You’re right.

Unlike a Jimmy Hat, a vaccine does not prevent you from becoming infected.

A vaccine is a preemptive measure that teaches your body to identify and react to infection sooner rather than later. Stamping it out before it becomes severe. But of course not all vaccines, bodies, or Jimmy Hats for that matter are perfect and there may be a very small chance things don’t go as planned.

Skybird · 07-25-21, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

A vaccine is a preemptive measure that teaches your body to identify and react to infection sooner rather than later. Stamping it out before it becomes severe. But of course not all vaccines, bodies, or Jimmy Hats for that matter are perfect and there may be a very small chance things don’t go as planned.

Correct. And that is where risk evaluation comes into play. One must weigh the risk of dying when not being vaccinated versus the risk of dying from vaccination complications. And that math leads to an overwhelming result.

Everybody, use your brain, get vaccinated. There is no rational argument known to me that speaks against it. Weigh the two risks involved in vaccinating, and not vaccinating.

And Delta spreads. It produces, so we have just learned, an initial virus load 1200 times higher than earlier variants. You may have dodged the earlier variants, but chances are that Delt is gonna get you sooner or later. Means: your time is running out. Smaller protection against delta only from one jab, several weeks until the second jab, then another two weeks until full protective effect has formed out. Time is ticking against you. What are you waiting for?

Jimbuna · 07-26-21, 08:09 AM

The number of new Covid-19 cases has fallen for the fifth day in a row in the UK

But No 10 says the country is "not out of the woods yet", with the easing of restrictions expected to lead to a rise in cases.

Testing begins today for staff in the food supply chain and transport and emergency service workers.

The scheme allows staff in exempt sectors to avoid self-isolation if they are in contact with a positive case.

Senior ministers will assess how exemptions are working and if they can expand the scheme to fully-vaccinated key workers later.

The government's plans for vaccine passports are unworkable, Labour's deputy leader says.

France's parliament has adopted a controversial law which will introduce Covid passports for entry to bars and restaurants.

Tunisia's president has sacked the prime minister and suspended parliament, after violent mass protests over Covid surge.

Jimbuna · 07-26-21, 08:13 AM

The US is heading "in the wrong direction" on the pandemic as infections surge among the unvaccinated, the country's top infectious disease expert has warned.

Dr Anthony Fauci, the chief medical adviser to US President Joe Biden, says the Delta variant is driving the spike in areas with low vaccination rates.

The coronavirus situation in the country is becoming "a pandemic among the unvaccinated", he told broadcaster CNN on Sunday.

He said US health officials were considering revising mask guidance for vaccinated Americans to curb cases and that offering booster jabs to vulnerable people was also under review.

Jimbuna · 07-26-21, 09:55 AM

Skybird · 07-26-21, 11:15 AM

BionTech feels like having a run. They just announced to form a highly effective vaccine against Malaria, basing on the mRNA technology. Clinical trials begin 2022.

So far there is just one vaccine of very limited effectiveness, Der Spiegel writes.

3catcircus · 07-26-21, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

BionTech feels like having a run. They just announced to form a highly effective vaccine against Malaria, basing on the mRNA technology. Clinical trials begin 2022.

So far there is just one vaccine of very limited effectiveness, Der Spiegel writes.

Hmm... isn't HCQ and the variant "-quine" drugs an anti-malaria drug that costs pennies per dose that has been used for decades? Is Pfizer going to make a profit competing against a cheap effective drug?

Where have we heard this argument before?!?!

Mr Quatro · 07-26-21, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Hmm... isn't HCQ and the variant "-quine" drugs an anti-malaria drug that costs pennies per dose that has been used for decades? Is Pfizer going to make a profit competing against a cheap effective drug?

Where have we heard this argument before?!?!

Somewhere, somehow, someone is going to make a profit

3catcircus · 07-26-21, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Somewhere, somehow, someone is going to make a profit

I guess they'll have to first wade upstream against that cache of HCQ that governments' banned from being used for covid because of the umpteen millions of lupus sufferers and travelers to malaria-ridden locations that need them...

Skybird · 07-26-21, 12:43 PM

Prevention versus treatment. And immunizations can lead to whole populations not even getting ill in the first. Treatment needs access of doctors to according areas, or patients reaching medical care stations, hospitals, whatever .

Every year, globally 200 million people become ill with Malaria. Per year since 2010, but to varying degrees, 1.5 million die from it, +/- 0.3 million. Recent two years seem to have seen a decline.

Lucky are the rich privilieged first world inhabitants having fast access to competent medical treatment. So that they must not care to get vaccinated - that would be an annoyance.

Skybird · 07-26-21, 01:28 PM

Recent claims about cremations and vaccines fact-checked

https://www.bbc.com/news/57941113

Jimbuna · 07-26-21, 01:53 PM

07-25-21, 12:09 PM	#7606
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,873 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Here's why my brain is in conflict on almost daily basis. Some weeks ago I read in a Swedish article saying that even people who had been infected by the first corona (Strain S I think it was)was immun against this Delta Variant. Then some days ago I read in a Danish Article quoting an English newspaper that even those who had been infected with corona earlier was not protected fully against Delta Variant. If I remember how sick my Elderly sister was, even though she got her flu vaccine, which became useless since that year Influenza mutated earlier. And I how during a influenza season was knocked out two times So the Danish/English article would be more correct. Even though you have had corona before or been vaccinated does not prevent you from getting the Delta Variant. Which has been said many times..the vaccine does not protect you from the virus, it has a high protection in preventing you from getting very sick Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

07-25-21, 02:40 PM	#7608
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The Covid vaccine is about keeping people out of hospitals and raising their chance of letting them escape a serious cause of the desease. The vaccines lower the risk of getting infected, but do not bring infections to nill. And nthat was cvlear and was said form all start on. Not even close to that, regarding Delta. But we have reports from the US, Canada, Germany, Ireland, the UK, France, Israel etc etc - those they see in hospitals currently, who are seriously ill, by totally overwhelming majority are unvaccinated people. And then there are the deaths at hopsital. And what do we see there? Plenty of old people with seriosu comorbidities like adiposiutas, diabetes, cardiovascular desease. But double-vaccinated younger people without serious comorbidities - are they dying in high scores anymore, do they overwhelm the hopsitals in numbers? No. Far from it. They are almost not there currently. You want to mislead people there, 3catcircus. The efficiency of vaccines can vary with age, and vaccines often are given in lower doses to older people to not trigger paradox vaccination symtpoms from their weakened (due to age) immune systems. Flu vaccines are not 100% effective - far from it. Their efficiency, changing by season and age groups, vary form year to year, mostly are between 20-25%, and 45 to 50%. The flu vaccination campaigns do not erase flu nor do they prevent infections. They just push chances in favour of the vaccinated, sometimes more, sometimes less and they help to keep the scale of the seasonal flu "pandemic" at a lower level than without vaccination. If its true what the yhave found on Delta, thats its intial virus load is 1200 times higher than with earlier variants of Covid-19, this explains why infection numbers are going up currently. We also know sinc eover one year that intiial virus load is a key factor deciding on the severity of the illness in the indoviodual. The vaccine help to b attle and bring down these loads from early on. I know no argument why this should not be helpful. It makes no sense to agitate against it. Getting the vaccine alter chances in your favour. They make you less a risk for others, you will be less a factor that spreads the desease in case you got infected. Herd immunity is a myth with Covid 19, still. It seems it cannot be acchieved with Covid-19. I slowly give up my former belief - and hope - that the virus will just become endemic and will become toothless, more harmless, like a seasonal flu. In the light of its possible artificial origin, if that turns out to bbe true it means that it does not play by the usual rulebook for naturally formed virusses and how these interact with the environment and their host and over time become endemic. I think it is more likely to be set for becoming nastier. If I would be asked to guess a number for that, I would guess chances to be 60:40. Thats a guess. A guts feeling. Seen this way, I see the current vaccines as a temporary but essentially necessary measure. Their usefulness probaly has limited longevity. Both new vaccines and better drugs for treating Covid-19 are needed. Our treatments still kill too much. And then ther eis Long Covid, even in children not sufferign from severe symptoms during infection, even bei asymptomtic. Long Covid nevertheless can and does catch them, like adults. Tuesday Noon I get my second shot. Then another 12-14 days until my possible maximum immunity effect should have formed up. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 07-25-21 at 02:49 PM.

07-26-21, 08:09 AM	#7611
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,127 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The number of new Covid-19 cases has fallen for the fifth day in a row in the UK But No 10 says the country is "not out of the woods yet", with the easing of restrictions expected to lead to a rise in cases. Testing begins today for staff in the food supply chain and transport and emergency service workers. The scheme allows staff in exempt sectors to avoid self-isolation if they are in contact with a positive case. Senior ministers will assess how exemptions are working and if they can expand the scheme to fully-vaccinated key workers later. The government's plans for vaccine passports are unworkable, Labour's deputy leader says. France's parliament has adopted a controversial law which will introduce Covid passports for entry to bars and restaurants. Tunisia's president has sacked the prime minister and suspended parliament, after violent mass protests over Covid surge. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

07-26-21, 08:13 AM	#7612
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,127 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The US is heading "in the wrong direction" on the pandemic as infections surge among the unvaccinated, the country's top infectious disease expert has warned. Dr Anthony Fauci, the chief medical adviser to US President Joe Biden, says the Delta variant is driving the spike in areas with low vaccination rates. The coronavirus situation in the country is becoming "a pandemic among the unvaccinated", he told broadcaster CNN on Sunday. He said US health officials were considering revising mask guidance for vaccinated Americans to curb cases and that offering booster jabs to vulnerable people was also under review. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

07-26-21, 09:55 AM	#7613
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,127 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

07-26-21, 11:15 AM	#7614
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	BionTech feels like having a run. They just announced to form a highly effective vaccine against Malaria, basing on the mRNA technology. Clinical trials begin 2022. So far there is just one vaccine of very limited effectiveness, Der Spiegel writes. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-26-21, 12:43 PM	#7618
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Prevention versus treatment. And immunizations can lead to whole populations not even getting ill in the first. Treatment needs access of doctors to according areas, or patients reaching medical care stations, hospitals, whatever . Every year, globally 200 million people become ill with Malaria. Per year since 2010, but to varying degrees, 1.5 million die from it, +/- 0.3 million. Recent two years seem to have seen a decline. Lucky are the rich privilieged first world inhabitants having fast access to competent medical treatment. So that they must not care to get vaccinated - that would be an annoyance. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-26-21, 01:28 PM	#7619
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Recent claims about cremations and vaccines fact-checked https://www.bbc.com/news/57941113 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-26-21, 01:53 PM	#7620
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,127 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)