To MOD Or Not To MOD

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by Hatch

Ok I'm sold (can't beleive i'm writing this, but it is fair to acknowledge your good work) I made up a mission with the editor to test acoustic detection ranges, the thermocline layer did not really differ a lot from above or below the layer as far as passive and active detection is concerned, if I pinged (I was using a helo) from above the layer (which was at 954 feet), i got a contact, then I went below, and I also got a contact, the difference in visual representation of the contact did not change any, alhtough it is possible to detect the contact from above and below the layer not taking into account where the contact resides at that point, one of these situations should give you a better visual return, that is a brighter blip on the active display, or a stronger aural reception on the passive mode, which you would then interpret as the contact being below or above the layer, which in turn will determine your attack presets for the weapon.


Hatch

That depends on how "strong" the layer is. If the SSP showed a "bend", then the layer is almost non-existant. However, if the SSP showed a huge shift in direction, the layer would be stronger and you wouldn't have received a good return, if any.

I am glad that after testing, you see the benefits the mods have given this community.

[OneShot]

Just to put your testings in the right perspective ... to what level did you patch the game ... 1.01 + Hotfix (assumed you own the 1.0DW from Battlefront) or 1.03b (given that you just recently bought DW which would be 1.02) or completely unpatched? Along with this, do you use the "right" mod for your patch ... means LwAmi 2.03 for 1.01 + Hotfix or LwAmi 3.00B for 1.03b. Based on your last post I would guess you are using 1.03b & LwAmi 3.00B ?

Depending on your Enviroment Conditions the Layer in 1.03b (and of course 1.03 once released) is really noticeable.

P.S. : The above might sound confusing now, but rest assured once 1.03 finally is released that problem will cease to exist as everybody is (hopefully) going up to 1.03 hence cutting the mod selection down to just one mod (LwAmi 3)

[Hatch]

Yes, my version is the original from battlefront, and I did have it patched with 1.03b before I installed the LWAMI.

My illustration was just a little example of a tiny occurence I noticed, I'm sure there other major issues lurking around in there I'm not aware of and you are, I've been away from this game for an easy 6 or 7 months, I've only returned to it encouraged by the 1.03b patch seeing as the developer is still supporting it (as it should be)

[Hatch]

Sh**t, no i was using LWAMI 2.03, the game original is DW 1.00, patched to 1.03b, I didnt see a link to LWAMI 3.00????

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Hatch

Sh**t, no i was using LWAMI 2.03, the game original is DW 1.00, patched to 1.03b, I didnt see a link to LWAMI 3.00????

www.Subguru.com has it just ctrl-f search on the DL page.

[Bellman]

Like many, I have followed this 'debate' and remained on the sidelines.
From the SCS forum posts I had concluded that a 'bait' was in progress and had to force myself to follow the thread here.

Hatch rightly tested the 'modders' defences and I think most of his criticisms were answered in detail and with
admirable restraint, (generaly.) Let's hope that the excellent advocacy shown will win more and more converts
for LwAmi, and other mods with w.i.p.

Thanks to sonar732 we have a great summary but that doesn't detract from the excellent contributions
from the likes of Molon, Mahuja, OneShot and TLAM.

The way you have conducted yourselves speaks volumes for why this community is 'simply the best.' :|\

Thanks to you all.

[OneShot]

Well in that case (using LwAmi 2.03 on 1.03b) try this link : http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174 and do another series of tests. Take notice of the fair difference between for example Mud and Rock Bottom in terms of Sonar Conditions.

[Theta Sigma]

Originally Posted by Bellman

The way you have conducted yourselves speaks volumes for why this community is 'simply the best.' :|\

Ditto!

Not only did you not take the bait, you won him over. Why the the hell you guys are playing wargames, I don't know.

You should be diplomats.

[Hatch]

Originally Posted by Bellman

Like many, I have followed this 'debate' and remained on the sidelines.
From the SCS forum posts I had concluded that a 'bait' was in progress and had to force myself to follow the thread here.

Hatch rightly tested the 'modders' defences and I think most of his criticisms were answered in detail and with
admirable restraint, (generaly.) Let's hope that the excellent advocacy shown will win more and more converts
for LwAmi, and other mods with w.i.p.

Thanks to sonar732 we have a great summary but that doesn't detract from the excellent contributions
from the likes of Molon, Mahuja, OneShot and TLAM.

The way you have conducted yourselves speaks volumes for why this community is 'simply the best.' :|\

Thanks to you all.

Actually Mr. Bellman, there was no bait, I started a thread on the SCS forum called "Sonar operator not calling incoming torpedoes?" within that discussion, Mr. Lutwolf asked what was behind my thinking not to prefer or even to consider MODS, I obliged and responded to his challenge, then Mr. Xabarus suggested I move the discussion here to continue a healthy and respectful debate on this issue.

http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/p...opic.php?t=310

So you see, the connotation of "Bait" does not play a part here, I could say I was "Baited" into moving the discussion here, would you agree?

Still, and to make matters clear, much of my arguments stand as they were presented, the fact that I tested the MOD and was convinced by its improvements to the game, does not invalidate the fact that MODS still have no following from the general public (In regards to this particular MOD, I find that is a shame having seen its contribution to it) you didnt disprove that argument, the fact it is extremely difficult to win over a larger audience without a visible, explicit and advertised nod of approval from the developer stands as I presented it. As far as my critism of amateurs and tinkers is concerned, I concede the point as I have praised the work you have done.

But the controversy over credibility which was my main point remains untouched sir.

We can argue for as long as you'd like over these and other issues, you'll find that I could have sold a machine gun to Ghandi. :rotfl:

[Bellman]

:rotfl: Hatch its always difficult to 'call time.'

You accounted for yourself with considerable chutzpah taking on many vets and gave a good display.
Driving your sub with some style you steered into a Wolf Pack and although under considerable pressure
and attacks from all sides you gave a good account of yourself.

A stylish and cheeky nose tweeking exercise - I think a Nelson or a Napoleon would have been impressed.
Winning or losing is irrelevent, in the circumstances.

I hope you will continue to evaluate LwAmi and learn to love it. Whatever I am sure that, when we catch
you in a positive mood, you have much to contribute to DW. I hope you will carry your energy into MP waters.

I shall look forward to that.

[Hatch]

Thank you sir, I appreciate your words, but personalities not withstanding, I am an engineer by training, I look for facts and mathematical solutions to every day issues. Thence my moods play no part in the search for demonstrable truth and acknowledgement where it is deserved.

I will continue to test the MOD and post my appreciations here.

Hatch

[LuftWolf]

I'll keep on testing the other enhancements you denote on the readme file with the other platforms.

After testing your MOD in a very superficial way, I find that the realism improvements are there.

Gentlemen, I congratulate you on a fine job, and I apologize for my doubting your word, now if you can only get SCS to implement these improvements, everyone who plays this game will be a winner.

Post any and all observations, thoughts, questions, and critiques you have!

LWAMI has grown to what it is in 3.00b because of the contributions, involvement, and support of the DW community, particularly here at Subsim.

Without the users of the mod giving us extensive feedback, we would just be left changing stuff and asking you to trust us, which is something I specifically wanted to avoid.

I believe in supporting anything I release. Members of the DW community deserve a quality mod and a mod team that is responsive to them. Subsimmers are too knowledgable and dedicated to receive less.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Theta Sigma

Ditto!

Not only did you not take the bait, you won him over. Why the the hell you guys are playing wargames, I don't know.

You should be diplomats.

Or maybe lawyers. :|\