[TEC] Hull question

[Bubblehead1980]

In TMO Update, I changed the damage model for some realism, where boat is lost due to combination of damage of various systems, flooding, overwhelming player, forcing to fight to stay above crush depth, risking running batteries out or can't stay above crush depth so must surface and fight it out, which typically results in loss of boat. Result is what I aimed for and pretty happy with it overall, the "death blow" aka insta death because one charge came too close, which TMO was notorious for is rare now, as it should be. When this happens, its usually when way below test depth and close charge knocks off some hull integrity and hull cant handle the pressure, leading to hull failure and death.

Anyways, overall happy but wondering about something. To accomplish this I set the armor level depth charges penetrate to 0.0 and the equipment on boat to 0.0. However, the subs hulls remain at 12.0, with exception of S-Class which is 10.0. This provides a decent balance, but sometimes when a charge is close, noticed it will damage hull, noticed on a few patrols now, with both Type 95 and Type DC, on boats from Gato, Balao, to Salmon class, a close DC will boost hull damage up to 20-25 percent. Fortunately, when this happened in Salmon I was not too deep and hull did not give way. I was at 590 ft in Balao but did not give way.

Not saying I will change it, DC should be able to damage hull and fact it does not cause insta death is great. Just wondering if anyone knows why when the armor level of the subs, which is higher than that the DC can penetrate, why DC can still damage the hull? What am I missing?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

In TMO Update, I changed the damage model for some realism, where boat is lost due to combination of damage of various systems, flooding, overwhelming player, forcing to fight to stay above crush depth, risking running batteries out or can't stay above crush depth so must surface and fight it out, which typically results in loss of boat. Result is what I aimed for and pretty happy with it overall, the "death blow" aka insta death because one charge came too close, which TMO was notorious for is rare now, as it should be. When this happens, its usually when way below test depth and close charge knocks off some hull integrity and hull cant handle the pressure, leading to hull failure and death.

Anyways, overall happy but wondering about something. To accomplish this I set the armor level depth charges penetrate to 0.0 and the equipment on boat to 0.0. However, the subs hulls remain at 12.0, with exception of S-Class which is 10.0. This provides a decent balance, but sometimes when a charge is close, noticed it will damage hull, noticed on a few patrols now, with both Type 95 and Type DC, on boats from Gato, Balao, to Salmon class, a close DC will boost hull damage up to 20-25 percent. Fortunately, when this happened in Salmon I was not too deep and hull did not give way. I was at 590 ft in Balao but did not give way.

Not saying I will change it, DC should be able to damage hull and fact it does not cause insta death is great. Just wondering if anyone knows why when the armor level of the subs, which is higher than that the DC can penetrate, why DC can still damage the hull? What am I missing?

that is an excellent question.
i have never been able to figure it out either. i also believe that stock DC are way-too powerful.

the only conclusion that i can draw is that the "effects" of the DC can cause damage to the hull despite not having armor penetrability (is that even a word?).

let me ask this: when the zero-AP-DC causes hull damage to your boat does it also cause damage to interior equipment?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

that is an excellent question.
i have never been able to figure it out either. i also believe that stock DC are way-too powerful.

the only conclusion that i can draw is that the "effects" of the DC can cause damage to the hull despite not having armor penetrability (is that even a word?).

let me ask this: when the zero-AP-DC causes hull damage to your boat does it also cause damage to interior equipment?

Yes stock and default TMO DC were way too powerful . I forget the exact stock values, but TMO default, the max hit points was like 180 hp per charge lol with min of about 140 or so. shocked me first time I opened up the file. Hell most boats max hit points are 325-375 lol.

Yes, it is a word. Definitions of penetrability. the quality of being penetrable. lol

Yes, the charge damages equipment as supposed to. The hull does not always get damaged, just when close. I had external cam off as usually do, but judging by the sound (have to love EAX sound sim, where can roughly tell distance of charges by sound ) it was very close above forward torpedo room. Hull damage went to 24 percent..took on water in forward torpedo room, all equipment in compartment was damaged to some degree, injuries, one crewman was left 'shaken" . Deck equipment forward was damaged, conning tower equipment took damage. Lights went out for a moment, boat was terribly shaken. I was at 425 feet in a Salmon Class.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yes stock and default TMO DC were way too powerful . I forget the exact stock values, but TMO default, the max hit points was like 180 hp per charge lol with min of about 140 or so. shocked me first time I opened up the file. Hell most boats max hit points are 325-375 lol.

Yes, it is a word. Definitions of penetrability. the quality of being penetrable. lol

Yes, the charge damages equipment as supposed to. The hull does not always get damaged, just when close. I had external cam off as usually do, but judging by the sound (have to love EAX sound sim, where can roughly tell distance of charges by sound ) it was very close above forward torpedo room. Hull damage went to 24 percent..took on water in forward torpedo room, all equipment in compartment was damaged to some degree, injuries, one crewman was left 'shaken" . Deck equipment forward was damaged, conning tower equipment took damage. Lights went out for a moment, boat was terribly shaken.

ok, thanks for confirming.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I was at 425 feet in a Salmon Class.

son, what in the H are doing at 425 feet!?!?!

the water-battle is three-dimensional.
vary your boat's depth as well as direction and speed. change all three constantly.
just because you feel the need to go deep doesn't mean you need to stay there.
after the escorts pass, change your depth, yes, you can vary your depth shallower. try to stay under the thermocline but change your depth and course, at a minimum. make the b@stards work to get a fix on you.
the Change is what is important.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

son, what in the H are doing at 425 feet!?!?!

the water-battle is three-dimensional.
vary your boat's depth as well as direction and speed. change all three constantly.
just because you feel the need to go deep doesn't mean you need to stay there.
after the escorts pass, change your depth, yes, you can vary your depth shallower. try to stay under the thermocline but change your depth and course, at a minimum. make the b@stards work to get a fix on you.
the Change is what is important.

I change speed, and direction often, as well as depth, works well. Why was I at 425? To get below their sonar and time to get out front under depth charges . Iass was four hours into the depth charging and they were first team, stayed on me like white on rice, my usual evasion tactics from previous seven patrols in the SEAL (Salmon Class) were not working. I believe one of them was likely set to "Elite" judging by behavior, well based on sound. At this point in war in TMO, April/May 1944, to get away in ideal conditions, calm, flat calm seas, have to find the depth where passive and active sonar have trouble maintaining contact. Typically, for most TMO escorts it seems to be around 350-375 feet, but if he was set to ELITE(which is rare, but they are present, rest are set to Veteran) , to get them to lose contact have to go deep. Salmon Class test depth is 250, so I have built in safety factor of 100 feet (with full hull integrity) and given historically some Salmons went to more than 500 feet in emergencies, was comfortable. I do not know exact crush depth of the boats (except S Boat, a user posted it) on purpose, just a rough guess. ) I went to 350, then 375, thent o 325, but they just had a fix, I was at 390 and solid for a while, then close pattern drove me to 400. I went to 425 and seemed to lose me for a few minutes, but guessing the Elite escort got a scent and came in, lucky charge from pattern is the one that cause the damage. Of course I went back up to 300 while fighting the flooding in forward torpedo room. Eventually, had to go to 418 to get them to lose contact. About a six hour depth charge attack.

I was facing an Etorofu Class Subchaser Escort and a No.13 Class (converted PC-461 to stand in I am adding to TMO in next release). Based on the sound, believe it was the Etorufu Escort that was so highly skilled