NYGM 3 Super-mod (Current: 3.6 F, January 13th 2015)

[Leoz]

Just started the 6th patrol in the Med.

First patrol started, 1 June.

NYGM still in my opinion has the best balance of the aircraft threat as it applies to each year.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Following pertain to a stock NYGM install with only the H.sie and Stiebler patched applied, various months in 1943 starting in July and later.
I've been curious about the aircraft behavior so I've been doing some testing/observing. Interested if anyone else has seen/does see similar.
Anyone else notice the Sunderlands being completely blind and worthless ? I've had them fly within a few hundred yards of my boat and never change course or attack. Finally did get one attack, did so only with guns.
I know the aircraft in the game only use visual sighting to find a u-boat whether radar equipped or not but they were in easy visual range.

The other aircraft have no problem finding my boat but there isn't much reason to dive to evade as they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with their bombs/charges and many times they don't drop them anyway.

I believe these are all scripted aircraft. Really like and impressed by the work Stiebler has done with aircraft in NYGM but would like to see them more of a threat/danger.

Did a little digging and discovered this explanation for why the Biscay aircraft are blind at times. Usual SH3 limitation. Stiebler did some incredible work re Biscay air coverage. Unfortunate that SH3's limitations cause this flaw.
"2. All the aircraft (scripted or spawned from a land-base) seem to be blind to the U-boat if it is not directly in their line of vision ahead as they fly close. As mentioned previously, the spawned aircraft are given a direct line of flight to the U-boat by the code before they are visible from the U-boat. This makes them deadly. The scripted aircraft can fly in a straight line past your U-boat without seeing it, even if it is close, unless the U-boat is by chance almost directly ahead of the flight of the aircraft."
from here.
Combine this limitation with the one causing an aircraft many times to not release its bombs/depth charges on the first pass (and being wildly inaccurate when it does) and one gets an aircraft "threat" that, isn't.

[Leoz]

From what I have seen from 41 to 42 not too bad. 43 progressively worse for U-boating as it should be. Just my observations.

[Leoz]

11th flot.

Did a July 42 patrol out of Bergen.

Went way up north west. Got a convoy. Escort protection was impressive (as it should be).

Detected before attack, depth charged, damaged and forced to the surface.

I feel so motivated, I will now try one in '43.... :P

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Leoz

From what I have seen from 41 to 42 not too bad. 43 progressively worse for U-boating as it should be. Just my observations.

If you're talking about aircraft, sure, numbers wise. Actual threat wise, not so much.
Another routine escort procedure missing from SH3 that would be nice is, even in early war via HF-DF they would run down the bearing of any shadowing/reporting u-boat.
Didn't result in many kills or even attacks but it drove the boat(s) down and/or away thus protecting the convoy.

[Leoz]

43,... Flot 11 found a convoy.... again, well protected. took a high aspect shot at a cruiser because in order to get the proper angle, well, the convoy was that well protected, (these convoys for historical reasons show some capital ships protecting them) and a cargo ship.
Hit the cruiser (sank later).
Barely avoided being rammed by a Flower-class.
Crash dive.
Took a beating of depth charges. Took some damage. If I didn't have decoys I would have been sunk.
Recovered. Later found the cargo ship above dead in the water (what I love about NYGM) sank it.

Damage was still a problem. Attack scope, radio and radar detector wrecked.

Trondheim was much closer than Bergen so I went there to end the patrol.

[John Pancoast]

Radar equipped Sunderland, 7/43 Bay of Biscay. Closed to within 4000 meters of me.
Never saw me visually (required with or without radar; another SH3 flaw) so no attack, kept on flying.
I didn't bother to even crash dive.

[Leoz]

Doing a patrol in original game resolution and aspect ratio filled out to a 34 inch monitor. Still not the worst thing in the world and allows you to play older original game mods.
7th Flot, VIIB
9.9.40 1049 sighted ship observed it for a half hour to get course and speed; course 75 @ 10 knots.
Then do an overhaul to setup for periscope attack.

1249 setup for periscope attack, verified British ID
1328 1 G7E launch @700m-800m, contact pistol, 4 meter depth
1329 Target hit forward of the bridge.
1339 Ship sunk, 8000GRT cargo, BF1776.


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NYGM Tonnage War V2.5 – Stand Alone Version
NYGM3_New
NYGM3_6F
NYGM_2017A
IABLShipsforNYGM_New_Thomsen
Harbor Traffic Add-In
Single Merchant Contact Mod
NYGM_HiRes_Submarines_3_6F
Hitman Optics NYGM 3.6 (Fixed) (aka Hitman I)
Officer graphics from HitmanGUI (aka Hitman II)
BlueRadio
Johnfb's Sepia toned crew managment
SHIII Internal Life Mod v1.2
SpiritOfMachJMGME
RadioMessage - MorseCodeOnly
Patch_HSIE-V16B1 (with Tyco to display LAT/LONG on map

[John Pancoast]

Leoz, if you haven't already be sure to try Stiebler's NYGM Inshore Campaign. Very well done !

[Leoz]

Where is that at?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Leoz

Where is that at?

Its already built into NYGM; the 1944-45 patrols from the Norwegian bases.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Did a little digging and discovered this explanation for why the Biscay aircraft are blind at times. Usual SH3 limitation. Stiebler did some incredible work re Biscay air coverage. Unfortunate that SH3's limitations cause this flaw.
"2. All the aircraft (scripted or spawned from a land-base) seem to be blind to the U-boat if it is not directly in their line of vision ahead as they fly close. As mentioned previously, the spawned aircraft are given a direct line of flight to the U-boat by the code before they are visible from the U-boat. This makes them deadly. The scripted aircraft can fly in a straight line past your U-boat without seeing it, even if it is close, unless the U-boat is by chance almost directly ahead of the flight of the aircraft."
from here.
Combine this limitation with the one causing an aircraft many times to not release its bombs/depth charges on the first pass (and being wildly inaccurate when it does) and one gets an aircraft "threat" that, isn't.

Hi John,


several years ago I made some tests concerning the 'blind' aircrafts. IIRC, there is no fundamental/hardcoded problem but only a sensor problem. It's much too insensitive for aircrafts.


According to my understanding of how sensors work in SH3, the game calculates every time interval of 0.?s for each sensor a probability that you are detected. This probability is determined according to a formula with parameters specified in sim.cfg. It then generates a random number and decides whether you have been detected, i.e., it's a nice 'Monte-Carlo' experiment.


Since an airplane has roughly 10-20x the speed of a ship, it spends less time in the region around a u-boat with a significant probability for detection. As a consequence, the total probability of being detected (not the probability in every single 'experiment') is much lower because the 'dice' is thrown less often for the plane.



My guess is that the devs didn't do a proper normalization of the probability to take the different speeds into account and thus fast objects have a disadvantage.


Best, LGN1

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi John,


several years ago I made some tests concerning the 'blind' aircrafts. IIRC, there is no fundamental/hardcoded problem but only a sensor problem. It's much too insensitive for aircrafts.


According to my understanding of how sensors work in SH3, the game calculates every time interval of 0.?s for each sensor a probability that you are detected. This probability is determined according to a formula with parameters specified in sim.cfg. It then generates a random number and decides whether you have been detected, i.e., it's a nice 'Monte-Carlo' experiment.


Since an airplane has roughly 10-20x the speed of a ship, it spends less time in the region around a u-boat with a significant probability for detection. As a consequence, the total probability of being detected (not the probability in every single 'experiment') is much lower because the 'dice' is thrown less often for the plane.



My guess is that the devs didn't do a proper normalization of the probability to take the different speeds into account and thus fast objects have a disadvantage.


Best, LGN1

Ah, thank you very much for the excellent information ! Makes perfect sense.
Sounds similar to the aircraft time compression problem.
I really like the flight paths Stiebler put in with these aircraft. Just wish they could see me better but thats not his fault.
Greatly appreciate the reply LGN1.

[Leoz]

Old saying---The Catalina was the only aircraft that climbed, dived, and cruised at 90 knots.

[Subtype Zero]

Tense moments with NYGM!

Setting: Early November, 1940 6:45 p.m. 150 km west-south-west of Gibraltar. Tracking a large convoy. Light seas, good visibility. Got inside outer lanes of convoy, sighted two transports. Two torpedoes each. Instantly sank the first transport, missed second. Dived to evade, but did not think to submerge under ships in convoy. Quickly located and pinged by escorts, dived to 120 meters. Hunted and depth-charged by four escorts for two-and-one-half hours. Light damage to flak gun, no other damage.

Eventually, three escorts left and went back to the convoy. Continued to be hunted by a Flower class corvette. This single escort continued to ping me, even after he ran out of depth-charges, for another NINE hours!! No matter how I evaded, he always seemed to know right where I was (this was before I learned that the sound of exploding depth-charges does NOT mask your sound of moving away). Out of desperation, I rose to periscope depth and fired an aft torpedo, which missed, of course. For some reason, he seemed to have more difficulty acquiring me at periscope depth and he eventually gave up and just before dawn, I escaped.

If anything, SH3 with NYGM will teach you to be patient!