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Old 05-21-2020, 05:24 AM   #121
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Just reread C.S. Forester's "The good shepherd", the book Hanks' film is supposely based upon. I still liked it, rather realistic story, even if i think the US captain's portrayal by Forester is a bit cheesy at times, with his religious remarks like accompanying the radius of the destroyer's turm with bible quotes and such . It came out 1955, and the war was still close in the minds of all, as was the war propaganda.

Whatever, in the book it is about a 30 ships convoy "shepherded" by two destroyers (one US one being polish) and two corvettes, against four U-boats (and some more far away being detected by HF-DF and sometimes radar). It is of course entirely based on the Captain's view and action, but it is really well done, you instantly feel and see what this all is about, it tells more about those convoy fights and problems than you could ever properly explain to someone. I doubt this and the Captain's thinking of manoeuvering and personal pressure of how he looks in the eyes of his crew can be shown in a film, but then of course i did not see i yet.

What i found interesting is that i the book both sides can somehow hear the radio chatter of the other, while Germany was a bit ahead after having broken the allied codes already early in the war, something that is seldom heard but it is (indirectly) in the book. Forester also writes of U-boat radio operators switching their frequency to the convoy's and placing some juicy english curses into the radio chatter, though this and the film's threatening of "good luck to survive the night" is most probably pure fiction and once more propaganda.
U-boat's radio operators were ordered to strict dario discipline, to restrict radio raffic only when ordered for weather and position data, along with the status of the boat and such. Even those status signals were compressed in two-second bursts called "Tabus", so the enemy would not have the time to properly get their position by reading cross bearings.

And 40 boats attacking one convoy like i think it is shown in the film? Doenitz would have been very happy to even have 30 U-boats scattered all across the atlantic, let alone all close to a convoy at one time.

"Apple film". Thanks but no thanks. Yes i will see it, later then.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:34 AM   #122
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Just reread C.S. Forester's "The good shepherd", the book Hanks' film is supposely based upon. I still liked it, rather realistic story, even if i think the US captain's portrayal by Forester is a bit cheesy at times, with his religious remarks like accompanying the radius of the destroyer's turm with bible quotes and such . It came out 1955, and the war was still close in the minds of all, as was the war propaganda.

Whatever, in the book it is about a 30 ships convoy "shepherded" by two destroyers (one US one being polish) and two corvettes, against four U-boats (and some more far away being detected by HF-DF and sometimes radar). It is of course entirely based on the Captain's view and action, but it is really well done, you instantly feel and see what this all is about, it tells more about those convoy fights and problems than you could ever properly explain to someone. I doubt this and the Captain's thinking of manoeuvering and personal pressure of how he looks in the eyes of his crew can be shown in a film, but then of course i did not see i yet.

What i found interesting is that i the book both sides can somehow hear the radio chatter of the other, while Germany was a bit ahead after having broken the allied codes already early in the war, something that is seldom heard but it is (indirectly) in the book. Forester also writes of U-boat radio operators switching their frequency to the convoy's and placing some juicy english curses into the radio chatter, though this and the film's threatening of "good luck to survive the night" is most probably pure fiction and once more propaganda.
U-boat's radio operators were ordered to strict dario discipline, to restrict radio raffic only when ordered for weather and position data, along with the status of the boat and such. Even those status signals were compressed in two-second bursts called "Tabus", so the enemy would not have the time to properly get their position by reading cross bearings.

And 40 boats attacking one convoy like i think it is shown in the film? Doenitz would have been very happy to even have 30 U-boats scattered all across the atlantic, let alone all close to a convoy at one time.

"Apple film". Thanks but no thanks. Yes i will see it, later then.
Thirty ship convoy with only four escorts ?! That's crazy, just asking for trouble.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:08 AM   #123
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Thirty ship convoy with only four escorts ?! That's crazy, just asking for trouble.
My father was once in a convoy to Russia bereft of any escorts.
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Old 05-21-2020, 09:15 AM   #124
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My father was once in a convoy to Russia bereft of any escorts.
Even crazier ! He ever mention the results ?
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:06 AM   #125
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Even crazier ! He ever mention the results ?
The convoys to Russia had a positive impact on the war, in this way the Russians received tanks, provisions, planes, etc.

The most notorious for the losses they faced, were the PQ-17 and the JW 55B, and I quote:

"Notable convoys:

The "Dervish" convoy assembled at Hvalfjöršur and sailed on 21 August 1941.[1] It arrived at its destination, Archangel, ten days later. The convoy was relatively small and consisted of only six merchant ships: Lancastrian Prince, New Westminster City, Esneh, Trehata, the elderly Llanstephan Castle, the fleet oiler Aldersdale and the Dutch freighter Alchiba. The Commodore was Captain JCK Dowding RNR. The escorts comprised the ocean minesweepers HMS Halcyon, Salamander and Harrier, the destroyers HMS Electra, Active and Impulsive and the anti-submarine trawlers HMS Hamlet, Macbeth and Ophelia. As evidence of Churchill's astute mastery of propaganda, on board Llanstephan Castle were two journalists and the artist, Felix Topolski.[5]

On 30 May 1942, the surviving ships of Convoy PQ 16 arrived, most ships to Murmansk and 8 ships to Archangel; the convoy was such a success in terms of the war stores delivered that the Germans made greater efforts to disrupt the following convoys. The crane ships from PQ 16 including SS Empire Elgar stayed at Archangel and Molotovsk (now Severodvinsk) unloading convoys for over 14 months.

In July 1942, convoy PQ 17 suffered the worst losses of any convoy in the Second World War. Under attack from German aircraft and U-boats, the convoy was ordered to scatter, following reports that a battle group, which included the battleship Tirpitz, had sailed to intercept the convoy (although the German group did not leave port until the following day, and was subsequently ordered to return to port). Only 11 of the 35 merchant ships in the convoy succeeded in running the gauntlet of U-boats and German bombers. The novel HMS Ulysses (1955) by Alistair MacLean contains fictional events reminiscent of PQ 17 and other historical events.

The Battle of the Barents Sea: In December 1942, German surface forces, including the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper and pocket battleship Lützow sailed to intercept Convoy JW 51B. The German force was driven off by a combined force of destroyers and cruisers.

In December 1943, Convoy JW 55B was the target of the German battleship Scharnhorst. Two British warship forces were in the area. In the Battle of the North Cape, Scharnhorst encountered British cruisers and was then sunk by HMS Duke of York and her escorts in a night action before it could return to port. German destroyers missed the convoy, which had been diverted north based on intelligence from the Norwegian resistance movement.[citation needed]"
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:29 PM   #126
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Even crazier ! He ever mention the results ?
I have all his papers filed away but copies were also sent to Sailor Steve who's eagle eyes soon discovered he was only sixteen years of age when he joined up (having lied about his age).

As current memory recalls I remember him telling me there were a dozen or so vessels with less than half eventually returning.

The reason there were no escorts was because they were all required for the invasion of Sicily.

He also said every man received a £50 war bonus which was an absolute fortune at the time.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:33 PM   #127
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I have all his papers filed away but copies were also sent to Sailor Steve who's eagle eyes soon discovered he was only sixteen years of age when he joined up (having lied about his age).

As current memory recalls I remember him telling me there were a dozen or so vessels with less than half eventually returning.

The reason there were no escorts was because they were all required for the invasion of Sicily.

He also said every man received a £50 war bonus which was an absolute fortune at the time.

Very interesting, thanks !
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:32 PM   #128
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My father was once in a convoy to Russia bereft of any escorts.

Now on the Twilight Zone...


Son hunts the convoy his father is in, as SHIII gets a little too real.


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Old 05-23-2020, 01:03 PM   #129
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I had a feeling it would be diverted to the streaming services but had hoped for HBO and maybe eventually Netflix as I had a serious desire to see this flic -- would have even gone to a theatre.


But Apple TV ? WTF?
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:11 PM   #130
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I had a feeling it would be diverted to the streaming services but had hoped for HBO and maybe eventually Netflix as I had a serious desire to see this flic -- would have even gone to a theatre.


But Apple TV ? WTF?
Ditto, not signing up for it.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:28 AM   #131
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i really need to this
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:35 PM   #132
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i really need to this

Hey, welcome to subsim, Mr. 1st post!
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:24 AM   #133
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Welcome to SubSim alfred
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:21 PM   #134
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alfred0809!
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:48 AM   #135
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I think Apple TV plus has a 7 day free trial so a lot of us might get to se the movie for free LOL. Would still like to have seen it in the cinema though.
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