[REL] R.S.D. - Reworked Submarine Damage

[vdr1981]

I've edited last post a bit Gap...

Also i'm interested is there any controller for TDC? If we still don't have luck with torpedo tubes,maybe there is is walkaround with TDC? Maybe is hard coded?

P.S.
Medic now?! Jeeee....

[gap]

If I understand correctly, the exposure factor is sort of a damage multiplier which is applied to crew, weapons and equipment of each compartment, unless (I wonder why?) they are linked to an external 3d model, and the model got a damage box. Is this correct?

Two thoughts:

- functionalities of most equipments are connected with the controllers applied to their 3d models. Therefore, the more damage shown in the damage management window, the worse their functioning. On the other hand, equipments missing 3d meshes/controllers can take damage, but this damage is not actually connected with any function. It that was true, it would imply that damage shown for them in the damage management UI is correct, but this damage is just a cosmetic feature, not involving any loss of functionality

- the HP setting in upc files is probably applied to equipments missing 3d models and damage boxes. If an equipment got a damage box, the HP setting of its zone (or of his SH3ZonnesCtrl controller) is used instead.

Can you confimr/disconfirm my thoughts?

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

If I understand correctly, the exposure factor is sort of a damage multiplier which is applied to crew, weapons and equipment of each compartment,

Correct!

Originally Posted by gap

unless (I wonder why?) they are linked to an external 3d model, and the model got a damage box. Is this correct?

Yes, except, it doesn't need to be external 3D model,you only need damage box with correct description. Take ubt command room
for example. There we have (in damage menu) slots for attack and obs periscope, pumps and torpedo data(probably TDC). Now all those items taking damage from hits to box with description "ubtcommroom", except pumps which have their own damage box with description "pumps". Because of this, damage percentage for them(pumps) is calculated properly in damage menu , depending of settings in zone definition from zone.cfg. Somehow, game is hardcoded to think that periscopes are linked to command room and that is the problem. I did not tested this but i think, if i add one box with description obs.periscope to main submarine .zon file, then amount of damage will be calculated correctly but there is no use of this because real periscope is "disconnected" completely from zones from main submarine zon.

Originally Posted by gap

Two thoughts:

- functionalities of most equipments are connected with the controllers applied to their 3d models. Therefore, the more damage shown in the damage management window, the worse their functioning. On the other hand, equipments missing 3d meshes/controllers can take damage, but this damage is not actually connected with any function. It that was true, it would imply that damage shown for them in the damage management UI is correct, but this damage is just a cosmetic feature, not involving any loss of functionality

Yes , something like that, except damage for engines and batteries and maybe for pumps and compressor, i'm not sure that those last two have any effect on sub performances (maybe you know more about this).By default, Engines and batteries are only things that actually work in SH5 damage modeling, everything else is pure cosmetic...

Originally Posted by gap

- the HP setting in upc files is probably applied to equipments missing 3d models and damage boxes. If an equipment got a damage box, the HP setting of its zone (or of his SH3ZonnesCtrl controller) is used instead.

Can you confimr/disconfirm my thoughts?

[/QUOTE] I really dont know.. I've got some mine theory that those HP from UPC are somehow connected to repair times...but i'm not sure, maybe they are just one big NOTHING...:P

[vdr1981]

O yes, and i think i'll need some transparent meshes for standard ubt hydrophones after all... they are destroyable but i have very strange behavior when 0HP is reached (game freeze most of the time ). Also note , that after hydrophone is destroyed, it is unusable but only for player, AI can give you bearing even after...Bummer...

P.S. Do you guys from subsim use any form of voice comunication, teamspeek, skype or something? My typing takes so much precious time for modding...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Yes, except, it doesn't need to be external 3D model,you only need damage box with correct description. Take ubt command room
for example. There we have (in damage menu) slots for attack and obs periscope, pumps and torpedo data(probably TDC). Now all those items taking damage from hits to box with description "ubtcommroom", except pumps which have their own damage box with description "pumps". Because of this, damage percentage for them(pumps) is calculated properly in damage menu , depending of settings in zone definition from zone.cfg. Somehow, game is hardcoded to think that periscopes are linked to command room and that is the problem. I did not tested this but i think, if i add one box with description obs.periscope to main submarine .zon file, then amount of damage will be calculated correctly but there is no use of this because real periscope is "disconnected" completely from zones from main submarine zon.

In which file is the "pump" zone located? to which bone is it attached?

Each periscope is functionally composed by two parts, i.e. two separate equipment definitions in equipents.upc: the PeriscopeBody (I think this is the periscope model we see inside the sub) and the PeriscopeHead. The latter are linked to external scope models in UBoot_Sensors.GR2, and you have already given damage boxes to them. On the other hand, PeriscopeBodie's have not external 3d model linking; nonetheless, if my interpretation of them is correct, their models are located in data/Subarine/Common/Parts/Room_?? - Periscop + Anim.GR2, and each got a sim file with PeriscopeStationController and InteractionContext controllers. You could try adding damage boxes to them.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Yes , something like that, except damage for engines and batteries and maybe for pumps and compressor, i'm not sure that those last two have any effect on sub performances (maybe you know more about this).By default, Engines and batteries are only things that actually work in SH5 damage modeling, everything else is pure cosmetic...

Why on earth one would spend promotion and morale points on damage control crew, if damage on most equipments does nothing?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I really dont know.. I've got some mine theory that those HP from UPC are somehow connected to repair times...but i'm not sure, maybe they are just one big NOTHING...:P

I don't think so. Repair times are connected with HP damage percent range of each DamageDescription, and with its relative repairtime_in_hours. I know this for sure: those are the settings tweaked by Rongel in his SH 5 Longer Repair Times.

Try changing the HP upc setting of an equipment which got its own damage box and see what happens. Use huge numbers to be sure that eventual effects won't pass unnoticed. I am 99% sure that nothing will happen.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

O yes, and i think i'll need some transparent meshes for standard ubt hydrophones after all... they are destroyable but i have very strange behavior when 0HP is reached (game freeze most of the time ).

Is this happening only with the GHG? If so, there should be a workaround for this. I cannot add meshes to it in the stock GR2 file (we can only import new meshes when they already exist), but I can create a GHG object with invible meshes in a new file

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Also note , that after hydrophone is destroyed, it is unusable but only for player, AI can give you bearing even after...Bummer...

This is actually weird, the controller attached to hydrophone sensors works for both the human player and AI crew, and destroying/damaging it should affect our sonarman. Tomorrow I will see what is going on with it

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

In which file is the "pump" zone located? to which bone is it attached?

It's the main sub .zon file, SH3zoneCtrl@NSS_Uboat7* , attached to the main object(whole sub).

Originally Posted by gap

Each periscope is functionally composed by two parts, i.e. two separate equipment definitions in equipents.upc: the PeriscopeBody (I think this is the periscope model we see inside the sub) and the PeriscopeHead. The latter are linked to external scope models in UBoot_Sensors.GR2, and you have already given damage boxes to them. On the other hand, PeriscopeBodie's have not external 3d model linking; nonetheless, if my interpretation of them is correct, their models are located in data/Subarine/Common/Parts/Room_?? - Periscop + Anim.GR2, and each got a sim file with PeriscopeStationController and InteractionContext controllers. You could try adding damage boxes to them.

I haven't spent much time exploring common folder, maybe i should do that, but i tried to merge periscopes gr2 files with their sim files without success, goblin editor crashes.... But, like i said before, i'm pretty much satisfied with current periscopes damage and i don't care so much about menu readings...

Originally Posted by gap

Why on earth one would spend promotion and morale points on damage control crew, if damage on most equipments does nothing?

Hm, flooding control maybe?

Originally Posted by gap

I don't think so. Repair times are connected with HP damage percent range of each DamageDescription, and with its relative repairtime_in_hours. I know this for sure: those are the settings tweaked by Rongel in his SH 5 Longer Repair Times.

Try changing the HP upc setting of an equipment which got its own damage box and see what happens. Use huge numbers to be sure that eventual effects won't pass unnoticed. I am 99% sure that nothing will happen.

I think i already tried that, 10HP or 1000HP, it's the same...

Originally Posted by gap

Is this happening only with the GHG? If so, there should be a workaround for this. I cannot add meshes to it in the stock GR2 file (we can only import new meshes when they already exist), but I can create a GHG object with invible meshes in a new file

I think so...Although, i haven't tested KDB hidrophone so much because i dont know how to add updated hidrophone to the test mission, it's always standard GHG...

Originally Posted by gap

This is actually weird, the controller attached to hydrophone sensors works for both the human player and AI crew, and destroying/damaging it should affect our sonarman. Tomorrow I will see what is going on with it

Actually, i expected this kind of behavior...Hydrophones are completely different from the deck gun for example and when crew reporting you bearings and distance, it looks like those readings aren't connected to hydrophone controllers in any case. Example is, you can ask sonarmen for nearest contact even while You using hydrophone and pointing sensors in completely different direction. It's like underwater version of "nearest visual contact" report...

[vdr1981]

Привет Captain

Which type of submarine?
761 is depth, right?
What happened, did you dive on purpose to that depth or you sinking because of flooding?
What's you'r hull integrity readings?

Describe situation from the picture in a bit more details...

[vdr1981]

Hm, strange... I didn't have nothing similar... Someone else maybe?

Why dont you try some single mission?

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

It's the main sub .zon file, SH3zoneCtrl@NSS_Uboat7* , attached to the main object(whole sub).

I wish to have a look into it, but I cannot find it. Can you post a screen capture showing the pump zone selected in Goblin's damage editor?

P.S: have you noticed that the deck gun got a damage box on boat's hull?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I haven't spent much time exploring common folder, maybe i should do that, but i tried to merge periscopes gr2 files with their sim files without success, goblin editor crashes....

Yes, noticed it too. I think Goblin doesn't like the PeriscopeStation controller. Anyway you don't need to merge the sim file for assigning a damage box to animated periscope bodies. If you want, I can do it for you.

On a side note: does the damage management window have separate fields for periscope heads and bodies, or they are merged into one equipment with its own damage percent?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

But, like i said before, i'm pretty much satisfied with current periscopes damage and i don't care so much about menu readings...

You should care. As I have told you, our crew will spend time and morale in fixing broken stuff. It is totally pointless for them to waste their time and morale on periscope damage rapairs which do nothing, while they could just focus on essential (i.e. non-cosmetic) equipment. I am not saying that we can't live with this kind of bug, but imo we should struggle a bit more before giving up

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I think i already tried that, 10HP or 1000HP, it's the same...

Okay, now try changing the same setting for equipments which have no box of their own

Originally Posted by vdr1981

I think so...Although, i haven't tested KDB hidrophone so much because i dont know how to add updated hidrophone to the test mission, it's always standard GHG...

You should test in campaign. There's a campaign Trevally has modified for me and Volodya, which allowed us to test various Flaks not easily available in campaign. Its link doesn't work anymore, but hopefully Trevally or Volodya saved the test campaign in their HD's

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Actually, i expected this kind of behavior...Hydrophones are completely different from the deck gun for example and when crew reporting you bearings and distance, it looks like those readings aren't connected to hydrophone controllers in any case. Example is, you can ask sonarmen for nearest contact even while You using hydrophone and pointing sensors in completely different direction. It's like underwater version of "nearest visual contact" report...

I am afraid you are wrong on this subject. I have worked personally on those controllers, when I and Volodya fixed the broken R.E.M. hydrophones. They affect AI as well as the human player. Maybe, in light of your tests, they are not essential for AI though. You can test it by removing manually all the SensorData controllers owned by hydrophones in UBoot_Sensors.sim. Beware that if you are using the R.E.M. version of the above file, each sensor got three of those controllers IIRC.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Hm, strange... I didn't have nothing similar... Someone else maybe?

Why dont you try some single mission?

Жао ми је Vecko!
The problem was in my game! I started the game at first, and so far everything is working perfectly!

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

I wish to have a look into it, but I cannot find it. Can you post a screen capture showing the pump zone selected in Goblin's damage editor?

Open data/submarine/NSS_Uboat7a... NSS_Uboat7a.zon, you will find pumps damage box there...

Originally Posted by gap

Anyway you don't need to merge the sim file for assigning a damage box to animated periscope bodies. If you want, I can do it for you.

Still nothing...Damage is taken from comm room, that damage menu is one big unusable crap IMO...and i'm starting to losing my nerves slowly...

Originally Posted by gap

On a side note: does the damage management window have separate fields for periscope heads and bodies, or they are merged into one equipment with its own damage percent?

Separate, but probably only for cosmetic purposes...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Open data/submarine/NSS_Uboat7a... NSS_Uboat7a.zon, you will find pumps damage box there...

Yes, I did it: I loaded the NSS_Uboat7a GR2 file, merged the respective zon file and opened the damage editor. I just can't see the pump box among other boxes. It should be located somewhere near the keel, ins't it?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Still nothing...Damage is taken from comm room, that damage menu is one big unusable crap IMO...and i'm starting to losing my nerves slowly...

...

Separate, but probably only for cosmetic purposes...

Okay, it makes sense. I hope that at least periscope heads, having an external 3d link and a damage box, are showing correct damages...

As for periscope bodies, keep calm and try doing this when you get time:

- create two new empty zon files, one for each Room_?? - Periscop + Anim.GR2 file, and add a SH3ZonesCtrl controller to each, each with a damage box pointing to the periscope model of its respective GR2 file.

- make each box either destructible or not destuctible (we will see which setting works better)

- open Equipment upc and change this:

[Equipment 18]
ID=EqpAttackPeriscope
NameDisplayable= Attack Periscope
FunctionalType= EqFTypePeriscopeBody
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,	0,	0.2,	0,	1,	1,	small malfunction,		0,	0,	NULL,	0.3,	0.4,	4
DamageDescription2= NULL,	0.2,	0.6,	0,	1,	1,	Misaligned Axis,		0,	0,	NULL, 	0.5,	0.4,	10
DamageDescription3= NULL,	0.6,	1,	0,	1,	1,	fuse blown,			0,	0,	NULL,	1,	0.2,	15

[Equipment 19]
ID=EqpObsPeriscope
NameDisplayable= Observation Periscope
FunctionalType= EqFTypePeriscopeBody
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,	0,	0.2,	0,	1,	1,	small malfunction,		0,	0,	NULL,	0.3,	0.4,	4
DamageDescription2= NULL,	0.2,	0.6,	0,	1,	1,	Misaligned Axis,		0,	0,	NULL, 	0.5,	0.4,	10
DamageDescription3= NULL,	0.6,	1,	0,	1,	1,	fuse blown,			0,	0,	NULL,	1,	0.2,	15

to this:

[Equipment 18]
ID=EqpAttackPeriscope
NameDisplayable= Attack Periscope
FunctionalType= EqFTypePeriscopeBody
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL
ExternalLinkName3D= Periscope_O_anim,data\Submarine\Common\Parts\Room_CT - Periscop + Anim
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,	0,	0.2,	0,	1,	1,	small malfunction,		0,	0,	NULL,	0.3,	0.4,	4
DamageDescription2= NULL,	0.2,	0.6,	0,	1,	1,	Misaligned Axis,		0,	0,	NULL, 	0.5,	0.4,	10
DamageDescription3= NULL,	0.6,	1,	0,	1,	1,	fuse blown,			0,	0,	NULL,	1,	0.2,	15

[Equipment 19]
ID=EqpObsPeriscope
NameDisplayable= Observation Periscope
FunctionalType= EqFTypePeriscopeBody
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL
ExternalLinkName3D= Periscop_CR,data\Submarine\Common\Parts\Room_CR - Periscop + Anim
Hitpoints= 100
DamageDescription1= NULL,	0,	0.2,	0,	1,	1,	small malfunction,		0,	0,	NULL,	0.3,	0.4,	4
DamageDescription2= NULL,	0.2,	0.6,	0,	1,	1,	Misaligned Axis,		0,	0,	NULL, 	0.5,	0.4,	10
DamageDescription3= NULL,	0.6,	1,	0,	1,	1,	fuse blown,			0,	0,	NULL,	1,	0.2,	15

If nothing happens, try changing periscope bodies file names removing spaces (e.g: Room_CR-Periscop+Anim instead of Room_CR - Periscop + Anim .GR2, .sim and .zon) and update external 3d links in equipment.upc accordingly.

What should happen? one (or both) of these:

- immediate CTD as soon a periscope body gets damaged/destroyed
- periscope bodies not responding to human interaction when damaged, and showing correct damage level in damage management interface. Fingers crossed

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

What should happen? one (or both) of these:

- immediate CTD as soon a periscope body gets damaged/destroyed
- periscope bodies not responding to human interaction when damaged, and showing correct damage level in damage management interface. Fingers crossed

Negative Gap, nothing... Destroyable yes/no, no damage in the menu, no broken periscopes, damage is still taken from ubtcommroom box(when i remove ubtcomromm damage for periscope is stuck at 100%).

When i remove spaces, 3d model isn't loaded in the game at all and also this will messed up UI ...

And here's screenshot for pumps, sry, i forgot...

[vdr1981]

Remember this Gap?

[vdr1981]

Good news after all!


I've figured how to " connect " boxes with slots in damage menu, even to add new one... Stand by for more updates...