Some questions regarding attack methods.

[FlyingTiger]

Hello all,
I recently get back to playing SH5 and downloaded the excellent TWOS megamod. I try out the four bearing method tutorial that comes with the mod and at the attack phase, set up a fast 90 degree attack (range ~6000m) but the sonarman lost track at around 344/345 degree but later re established at 016/017 degree (relative bearings). Is this the forward blind spot of the Type VII and how large is its angle?
Also, I managed to sink the target at bearings 320, 330 and 340 with ease (hit for every torp launched) but I missed when trying to launch at bearings past 0 degree gyro angle. This begs the question, is it possible to do follow up shots once the target passes 000 bearing (or 0 gyro angle) while maintain own's current heading, course and speed? I have some problems with accuracy due to "operator error" (point at XO) even when using the fast attack method that requires either follow up shots or loading the save. The latter can be unrealistic and I wonder how the German captains handled this situation.
Pardon me for this barrage of questions, I am curious about the historical set up for WW2 submarines against lone merchants and convoys. Did they all choose the 90 degree method? There is some mention of parallel course attack and opposite course attack. I am sure that between those, there should be some instances when the submarine had to launch torpedoes at an odd angle (less than 90 degree). Could anyone clarify this or show me somewhere I can read up more on how WW2 subs operated?
Thank you

[Aktungbby]

FlyingTiger!

[derstosstrupp]

Welcome back!

Check out the targeting link in my sig, I’ve got my retranslation of the wartime Handbook for U-boat Commanders as well as other goodies.

Also, on my YouTube channel I focus specifically on historical methods based on my research of doctrine (Marine-Dienstvorschriften) as well as logbooks (Kriegstagebücher). On there are videos demonstrating historical attack techniques on single ships by day and night. The Wolfpack videos on there demonstrate vs convoys. Different game but same principles.

I personally wouldn’t bother with the 4-bearing method. It’s a method developed in the 1950s when submarine warfare was transitioning to bearings only, passive sonar attacks (sub vs sub). Germans relied on the mark one eyeball and doctrine was to stay on the surface when possible, because what you get by observation is better than anything else. Not to mention the fact that games significantly overstate the reliability and accuracy of hydrophones of the period.

[kapuhy]

Besides link in derstosstrupps' sig, also see Bstanko6's channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPb...ugaTCHwW2NArCA

I'm no targeting expert myself so won't offer any advice on that, but have to comment on question that you've asked that wasn't answered yet:

Originally Posted by FlyingTiger

I wonder how the German captains handled this situation.

Well... they missed. A lot. When you read about historical battles they're full of stories of submarines shooting several salvos of torpedoes over a series of attacks, only to sink one ship or, in many cases, none at all. They weren't helped by faulty torpedoes, weather (what we have for storms in SH5 pales in comparison to actual Atlantic storms), enemy actively trying to evade and defend themselves, etc. We gamers are used to maximizing our scores and expect to be able to achieve very good results every patrol but in real life sinking 3-4 decently sized ships with your 14 torpedoes was considered a success.

[derstosstrupp]

Ah thanks kapuhy I missed that question of his.

Generally they strove to shoot at the smallest gyro angle possible, as that eliminates range as a factor in the torpedo triangle. So in this case , assuming the target is not excessively fast, they’d lay rudder and set up for another minimum-gyro shot.

Now, depending on the version of TDC aboard, this could be a tough or easy proposition. Prior to mid-41, the TDC aboard was very much “point and shoot”; it did not update AOB for bearing changes, and more importantly it did not have connectivity to the gyrocompass. So in this instance, assuming your situation above, they’d need to turn to a new lead course, reset AOB for some future bearing, wait til target crossed that bearing, and shoot (called shooting “im Durchwandern”).

Enter the TDC model S3 in mid-41. This computer, among other benefits, also had connectivity to the gyrocompass, and it had an AOB synchro motor. This meant that, when told to do so, it could update AOB for every degree of bearing change AND own course change (a feature called “Lage laufend”). So in this situation above, Lage laufend would already have been switched, so all that needed to be done is for the U-boat to change course, and as long as the optics were kept on target, the AOB would be correct (assuming no target course changes). This model even took the U-boat’s turning speed into account when set to do so, allowing the boat to fire while turning. The own-course tracking feature as well as turn speed correction are sadly features we miss out on in SH3/5.

They could of course just simply choose to maintain course, and as long as the gyro angle is within 20° or so of your bow, range is still pretty much irrelevant to the solution, so there’s that as well.

So very much dependent on the equipment aboard. The S3 model was a significant improvement and allowed the boat to react to changing situations like this.

[FlyingTiger]

Thank you for the welcome, Aktungbby.
Thank you derstosstrupp and kapuhy for your trove of information on the subject. I didn't know that WW2 submarine warfare involved that much human input and some very interesting approaches demonstrated in derstosstrupp's videos.
After watching your day approach technique, I believe that the sensible thing for me to do is practice on the slide rule first as there are several points I completely missed in that video when you used the disk. Did you first find it a bit finnicky and confusing using that method of approach, what with changing courses and speed?
After reading your answers about submariners' real life missing targets, I'd assume that it is prudent to prepare to change heading (and pre emptively eyeball another bearing) for follow up shot or just plain vacate the crime scene to set up another ambush elsewhere?

[derstosstrupp]

If you want to practice on the missions I use in those videos, here they are below.

Day:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...aXMDjsvvGRFeV3

Night:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...n_IlXwqs1lI_-k

Drop those folders into C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 5\data\SingleMissions

To start with I would get comfortable with the attack disk (the “front side”). Don’t bother with the back side, at least at first. The methods I show of data gathering are pretty simple, to where you don’t necessarily need the back side for calculations.

[FlyingTiger]

Thank you for the missions. I tried the day approach one and have some questions regarding the observation. Is it still a good stalking distance when the flag appears over the horizon?

[derstosstrupp]

My general rule is as long as I can’t see the bridge, I’m OK. The flag visible is perfect IMO.