UK Politics Thread - Page 933

Jimbuna · 06-23-21, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ooopsie... the UK wanting to play with Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

Before you set out to the dancefloor competition, make sure you learned the steps right and are fit for the pace of the tunes.

From German Wikipedia:
"Rear Admiral Chris Parry stated in January 2017 that the destroyers were "devilishly loud" underwater and that they sounded like a box full of wrenches. His crew would have put wooden wedges in hatches and doors to reduce the rattle. A corresponding investigation showed that Russian submarines would be able to locate the noise over hundreds of nautical miles."

Well, if the Russians so easily can know where these ships are, we can at least be certain that they will not accidentally shoot at them by mistaking them with somebody else.

Looking at the full report on UK tv proves to me it simply didn't happen. At least not the way the Russians reckon.

Bilge_Rat · 06-23-21, 12:07 PM

According to the reporter on board, the ship did deliberately go inside Russian claimed territorial waters:

Quote:

On board HMS Defender

Jonathan Beale, Defence Correspondent

I am on board the warship in the Black Sea.

The crew were already at action stations as they approached the southern tip of Russian-occupied Crimea. Weapons systems on board the Royal Navy destroyer had already been loaded.

This would be a deliberate move to make a point to Russia. HMS Defender was going to sail within the 12 mile (19km) limit of Crimea's territorial waters. The captain insisted he was only seeking safe passage thorough an internationally recognised shipping lane.

Two Russian coastguard ships that were shadowing the Royal Navy warship, tried to force it to alter its course. At one stage, one of the Russian vessels closed in to about 100m.

Increasingly hostile warnings were issued over the radio - including one that said "if you don't change course I'll fire". We did hear some firing in the distance but they were believed to be well out of range.

As HMS Defender sailed through the shipping lane it was buzzed by Russian jets. The Captain, Vincent Owen, said the ship detected more than 20 military aircraft nearby. Commander Owen said his mission was confident but non-confrontational.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

Looks to me like a one-off, using the RN to show the flag and point out that the annexation of Crimea is not recognized. I presume this is less insulting than using USN ships.

There will be a major NATO-Ukraine naval exercise in the Black Sea next week. Maybe this was a test to see how the Russians will react?

I doubt this will be a common occurence. Eventually Russia would have to react and NATO does not want to get into a shooting war with Russia.

Moonlight · 06-23-21, 05:32 PM

I doubt Russia would want to get into a shooting war with NATO either, it's only some feeble military posturing as usual, a shooting match would serve no purpose to either side.

Skybird · 06-23-21, 06:19 PM

Reporter aboard the ship says he heard distant cannon fire, and its also said that aircraft were in the air. Finally its said the destroyer went into waters the West says are Ukrainian and the Russians say are Russian.

However, look at the map. Sevastopol is very nearby. If you seriously want to provoke an accidental engagement, then do it there, right on the doorstep of their biggest naval base in the Black sea, the main strategic reason why they took all the Crimean adventure on them. In no other part of the Crimean coastal waters you may have better chances to get what you asked for. Its like a submarine popping up at the entrance to Pearl Harbour.

Demonstrating claimed freedom of passage to illustrate one's own view of an issue, is one thing. Doing it right on the main nervous nexus of the opponent, that is something very different. To some things the other side simply cannot afford not to react to if it wants to be taken serious afterwards.

The Russians may not want a major war with NATO, but different to Europe, they are willing to wage war in that region - and different to Europe, their people would support it: its the Crimean.

And the RN has not many destroyers, and these are underarmed still (or have they finally gotten all the weapons they once were designed for?), I think, and tasked for escort service to the carriers. Even a just damaged destroyer in their fleet and months in harbour for repair would ruin their plans for their Asian all-in betting adventure voyage. Thats the bad thing if you have modern ships - but only in extremely small quantities: every minor hickup can already ruin your plans and timetables for the year and years after that. No reserves: no degrees of freedom.

Jimbuna · 06-24-21, 08:45 AM

Will be interesting to see what route she takes on the return voyage.

Moonlight · 06-26-21, 10:05 AM

Will public opinion over Hancock's rule breaking cost the Tories dear in the Batley and Spen by-election.

Tory MPs and activists are feeling buoyant on the campaign trail in the rolling West Yorkshire Pennines, “It’s looking good, I would be surprised if we didn’t win it,” said one of the many Tory MPs who have been on the campaign trail.
And then Matt Hancock is frontpage news as he's seen canoodling with his bit of fluff in the office.
18 months of following government rules, and for what, so this pillock along with the rest of his Tory cronies can break them when they see fit.
Now I know why Bozo Johnson and Matt Hancock caught Covid last year, apparently they haven't been wearing masks at 10 Downing Street or in the Department of Health and Social Care for over a year, if this is true that's going to cause more outrage.

I've just been chatting with the neighbour next door who knows everyone and he says the residents are foaming at the mouth over this latest breach by a government minister. I wonder if the same can be said in Batley and Spen, we'll know next week, if they lose this by-election there will be fingers pointing in Hancock's direction.

Jimbuna · 06-26-21, 11:49 AM

Opposition to the hypocrite is growing apparently.

Matt Hancock is facing calls to quit as health secretary from fellow Tory MPs after he breached social distancing guidance by kissing a colleague.

The health secretary apologised after pictures emerged of him with Gina Coladangelo, reportedly taken on 6 May.

Conservative MPs Duncan Baker and Sir Christopher Chope have said he should go, while former secretary of state Esther McVey said she would have quit in Mr Hancock's position.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57622868

Jimbuna · 06-26-21, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Opposition to the hypocrite is growing apparently.

Matt Hancock is facing calls to quit as health secretary from fellow Tory MPs after he breached social distancing guidance by kissing a colleague.

The health secretary apologised after pictures emerged of him with Gina Coladangelo, reportedly taken on 6 May.

Conservative MPs Duncan Baker and Sir Christopher Chope have said he should go, while former secretary of state Esther McVey said she would have quit in Mr Hancock's position.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57622868

He's eventually done the right thing and has just resigned.

Catfish · 06-26-21, 12:49 PM

Russians talk of Crimea war 2.0

https://translate.google.com/transla...0-6120154.html

Moonlight · 06-26-21, 01:49 PM

^That's not news it's bleeding propaganda, is "Russian State Media" the holy grail of honest news reporting now?.

Catfish · 06-26-21, 04:36 PM

Of course it is, but the videos were even posted on state-critical media in Russia
https://meduza.io/news/2021/06/24/is...v-chernom-more
I still wonder what England's destroyer had to do there apart from a well-planned provocation. Diversion from home problems? I would have liked to eavesdrop what has been said to Deborah Bronnert while being summoned to Russia's foreign ministry

Skybird · 06-27-21, 05:37 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57624942
I stick to it. Issuing provocations while not being readied to substantially maintain robust consequences that can derive from them, is stupid and bigmouthed.

Play or dont play. But if you play, play all in. Dont bluff. Hope is not a strategy.

Jimbuna · 06-27-21, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57624942
I stick to it. Issuing provocations while not being readied to substantially maintain robust consequences that can derive from them, is stupid and bigmouthed.

Play or dont play. But if you play, play all in. Dont bluff. Hope is not a strategy.

Don't pull the tail of the tiger because actions often bring about consequences.

Skybird · 06-27-21, 07:26 AM

Exactly.

My grandfather (on mother's side) obviously was in WW2. He was kind of mentally broken after that experience, and pacifist. But he also had been soldier with plenty of combat experience under his belt (tank commander). He used to say something like: never have a war again. But if you must, then throw anything into it that you can. Don't play with fire if you are not willing and ready and capable to burn down the whole world. If you cannot do that, don't even think about start playing with fire.

100% my view.

Catfish · 06-27-21, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57624942 [...]

"Classified Ministry of Defence documents found at bus stop"
What? And it is all in there ... edit: might have been done intentionally.

Ok it is ukdefencejournal (at some point they may reach german word construction lengths

), but this paints a bit of a different story:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/are-...itish-warship/

06-23-21, 05:32 PM	#13983
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,133 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	I doubt Russia would want to get into a shooting war with NATO either, it's only some feeble military posturing as usual, a shooting match would serve no purpose to either side. __________________

06-23-21, 06:19 PM	#13984
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Reporter aboard the ship says he heard distant cannon fire, and its also said that aircraft were in the air. Finally its said the destroyer went into waters the West says are Ukrainian and the Russians say are Russian. However, look at the map. Sevastopol is very nearby. If you seriously want to provoke an accidental engagement, then do it there, right on the doorstep of their biggest naval base in the Black sea, the main strategic reason why they took all the Crimean adventure on them. In no other part of the Crimean coastal waters you may have better chances to get what you asked for. Its like a submarine popping up at the entrance to Pearl Harbour. Demonstrating claimed freedom of passage to illustrate one's own view of an issue, is one thing. Doing it right on the main nervous nexus of the opponent, that is something very different. To some things the other side simply cannot afford not to react to if it wants to be taken serious afterwards. The Russians may not want a major war with NATO, but different to Europe, they are willing to wage war in that region - and different to Europe, their people would support it: its the Crimean. And the RN has not many destroyers, and these are underarmed still (or have they finally gotten all the weapons they once were designed for?), I think, and tasked for escort service to the carriers. Even a just damaged destroyer in their fleet and months in harbour for repair would ruin their plans for their Asian all-in betting adventure voyage. Thats the bad thing if you have modern ships - but only in extremely small quantities: every minor hickup can already ruin your plans and timetables for the year and years after that. No reserves: no degrees of freedom. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-24-21, 08:45 AM	#13985
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,146 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Will be interesting to see what route she takes on the return voyage. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-26-21, 10:05 AM	#13986
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,133 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	Will public opinion over Hancock's rule breaking cost the Tories dear in the Batley and Spen by-election. Tory MPs and activists are feeling buoyant on the campaign trail in the rolling West Yorkshire Pennines, “It’s looking good, I would be surprised if we didn’t win it,” said one of the many Tory MPs who have been on the campaign trail. And then Matt Hancock is frontpage news as he's seen canoodling with his bit of fluff in the office. 18 months of following government rules, and for what, so this pillock along with the rest of his Tory cronies can break them when they see fit. Now I know why Bozo Johnson and Matt Hancock caught Covid last year, apparently they haven't been wearing masks at 10 Downing Street or in the Department of Health and Social Care for over a year, if this is true that's going to cause more outrage. I've just been chatting with the neighbour next door who knows everyone and he says the residents are foaming at the mouth over this latest breach by a government minister. I wonder if the same can be said in Batley and Spen, we'll know next week, if they lose this by-election there will be fingers pointing in Hancock's direction. __________________

06-26-21, 11:49 AM	#13987
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,146 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Opposition to the hypocrite is growing apparently. Matt Hancock is facing calls to quit as health secretary from fellow Tory MPs after he breached social distancing guidance by kissing a colleague. The health secretary apologised after pictures emerged of him with Gina Coladangelo, reportedly taken on 6 May. Conservative MPs Duncan Baker and Sir Christopher Chope have said he should go, while former secretary of state Esther McVey said she would have quit in Mr Hancock's position. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57622868 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

06-26-21, 12:49 PM	#13989
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Russians talk of Crimea war 2.0 https://translate.google.com/transla...0-6120154.html __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

06-26-21, 01:49 PM	#13990
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,133 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	^That's not news it's bleeding propaganda, is "Russian State Media" the holy grail of honest news reporting now?. __________________

06-26-21, 04:36 PM	#13991
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Of course it is, but the videos were even posted on state-critical media in Russia https://meduza.io/news/2021/06/24/is...v-chernom-more I still wonder what England's destroyer had to do there apart from a well-planned provocation. Diversion from home problems? I would have liked to eavesdrop what has been said to Deborah Bronnert while being summoned to Russia's foreign ministry __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 06-27-21 at 11:57 AM.*

06-27-21, 05:37 AM	#13992
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57624942 I stick to it. Issuing provocations while not being readied to substantially maintain robust consequences that can derive from them, is stupid and bigmouthed. Play or dont play. But if you play, play all in. Dont bluff. Hope is not a strategy. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-27-21, 07:26 AM	#13994
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,490 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Exactly. My grandfather (on mother's side) obviously was in WW2. He was kind of mentally broken after that experience, and pacifist. But he also had been soldier with plenty of combat experience under his belt (tank commander). He used to say something like: never have a war again. But if you must, then throw anything into it that you can. Don't play with fire if you are not willing and ready and capable to burn down the whole world. If you cannot do that, don't even think about start playing with fire. 100% my view. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 06-27-21 at 07:35 AM.