More "realistic" wolf pack beacons

[John Pancoast]

More of a tip than a mod. One of the (many) things AOD had that SH3 doesn't was having other subs send radio messages to BdU about a convoy contact and then BdU ordering the player to join in on that attack.

This is probably old news to most. Sorry for the length and if posted before.

Ala NYGM it is possible to simulate a wolf pack attack by attaching one (or more) of Sergbuto's ai subs to a convoy. This can actually fairly easily be done for any SH3 install.
When the players gets within x range of the convoy, the attached sub attacks to represent a pack.
This simulates BdU gathering a pack attack well, but there are no radio messages from other subs per above. Just the standard "Radio report enemy convoy....." message.
Some things I've never cared about this method though: 1. The contact frequency reports are many hours apart. A shadowing sub would report much more frequently. 2. The player doesn't know that a "pack" is attached to a convoy until he contacts it. The player is sailing along to atttack a convoy and then gets literallly suprised to find out their are other sub(s) attacking the convoy too ! A pleasant surprise in the game, but highly unrealistic; a commander going to join in on a pack attack would obviously know other subs were involved too.

I'm a fan of an old poster's work, guy called CB.. I like one of his ideas, https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94400, but it too has flaws for what it is meant to represent.
- again, the shadowing sub only reports at the lengthy default convoy reporting rate. No shadowing sub would report in this untimely manner.
- even though the shadowing sub uses the same waypoints, etc. as the convoy, for various game reasons, sometimes that sub can be hundreds of miles away from the actual convoy location. Obviously highly unrealistic for a supposed shaowing sub, let alone good luck finding that convoy yourself.

So I thought how to make a shadowing sub report more often, to better simulate an actual shadowing sub and the AOD function as close as possible in SH3 ?
Each convoy has this structure in the .rnd file. Here's HX39's controlling info. from stock, i.e.

[RndGroup 61]
GroupName=HX39Convoy
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=-7617918.000000
Lat=5345865.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=7860
SpawnProbability=95
RandStartRadius=1.000000
ReportPosMin=600
ReportPosProbability=50
Heading=138.606003
Speed=6.000000
ColumnsNo=4
Spacing=700
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19390803
GameEntryTime=200
GameExitDate=19391229
GameExitTime=0
NextWP=0

The two highlighted lines help control, in order, how often the player gets a contact report in minutes, (i.e., ten hours in this example) and the chance of a report even happening.
Since having a shadowing sub per CB's idea from the above link would also use this same info. for this convoy, it too would only report every ten hours ! Not good.
So first I changed the ReportPosMin the sub was using to 30 minutes. This worked great to mimic an actual shadowing sub, but then I discovered the above mentioned problem of the sub at times being hundreds of kms from the actual convoy location !? "Hey Commander Dummy, you're supposed to be actually *in visible contact* with the convoy to be able to issue a report !"

So the obvious solution is to then just change the ReportPosMin for the convoy itself instead of the subs ! I also changed the ReportPosProbability value to 100. I.e.,

[RndGroup 61]
GroupName=HX39Convoy
Category=0
CommandEntry=0
Long=-7617918.000000
Lat=5345865.000000
Height=0.000000
DelayMin=60
DelayMinInterv=7860
SpawnProbability=95
RandStartRadius=1.000000
ReportPosMin=30
ReportPosProbability=100
Heading=138.606003
Speed=6.000000
ColumnsNo=4
Spacing=700
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
CurrentInstanceID=0
GameEntryDate=19390803
GameEntryTime=200
GameExitDate=19391229
GameExitTime=0
NextWP=0

This provides the actual convoy location per the ReportPosMin time frame specified and to me anyway, better mimics an actual shadowing sub's beacons/reports.
I've only done this for the twelve convoys with subs already attached to them in NYGM, to represent said sub providing beacon reports. The other convoys reports still function as before.
Of course, a player can use whatever numbers desired for the two functions. I choose 30 because once a player "gets close" to a convoy even an hour can be to long. But up to 60 would probably work too.
Would be even better if these time frames could be automagically be made variable to represent a shadowing sub getting chased down, away, etc. for a bit but I don't see how that is possible to do.

Anyway, just posting so that if someone else likes it, they can try it too.

[FUBAR295]

John,

Thanks for posting this.

Thinking of trying this since now I know what to change.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

John,

Thanks for posting this.

Thinking of trying this since now I know what to change.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Working great in tests and one can use any time frame numbers desired in the two lines.
I changed mine to 60 and 75 so sometimes the player doesn't get a report every hour. This helps simulate what I mentioned about the shadowing sub being driven off/down, etc. for a bit.
75 caused a report every two hours instead, every so often. Might lower that a bit more still.
Easy and quick to test; just set up a rnd file with only few convoys with subs attached in the entire file vs. a regular rnd file and set contacts.cfg Opportunity contacts line to 33k so you can see it easily in testing.

[FUBAR295]

John,

Thanks as I was going to ask you how you set up your convoy report timing and percentages.


Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[EmeAzul]

John, I really like your idea and will be implementing in my RND campaign fairly soon. But you mentioned Opportunity Contacts in your last note. I was under the perhaps false impression that Opportunity contacts were for Merchants and Important Contacts were for Convoys. For example, GWX has 250 Km and Stock has 300 Km for Opportunity contacts, while for Important Contacts, GWX has 750 Km and stock has 1,500 KM. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter and will be glad to change my assumption if it turns out to be incorrect. Thx

[zeus]

and how is the AI of the submarines in wolf pack?

do they launch torpedoes when submerged?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by zeus

and how is the AI of the submarines in wolf pack?

do they launch torpedoes when submerged?

They're ok. Their main functions is to hopefully draw off an escort(s) to your benefit. They are submerged (I've sailed by a periscope before) but iirc they don't use torpedoes but a 88m shell mimics it. When something is hit, it looks like it was torpedoed.
Also literally been ready to torpedo a ship myself when it gets hit by the ai. Seen them take out a Bogue Class carrier. Another time I was getting chased by an escort and it was hit. That was cool
It's impressive when they show up. Sometimes they get sunk right away, sometimes not. With the default spawn probability % of 50 sometimes they don't show up at all.
H.sie patch wolfpack option is impressive too.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by EmeAzul

John, I really like your idea and will be implementing in my RND campaign fairly soon. But you mentioned Opportunity Contacts in your last note. I was under the perhaps false impression that Opportunity contacts were for Merchants and Important Contacts were for Convoys. For example, GWX has 250 Km and Stock has 300 Km for Opportunity contacts, while for Important Contacts, GWX has 750 Km and stock has 1,500 KM. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter and will be glad to change my assumption if it turns out to be incorrect. Thx

You may be right, not sure.
To be clear, the only reason I mentioned Opportunity at 33k was to be easily able to see the results of individual testing so one can set whatever time frame numbers they prefer.
You wouldn't want to play the game with that 33k setting.

[John Pancoast]

Couple things I've noticed with the attached sub to the convoy reporting:


- I'm only getting the radio report notice when I'm very close; approx. 50 kms or so. Seems to be when the convoy spawns into the 3d world.
No big deal as with the constant shadowing reports one can follow the convoy anyway, but I wonder why this is so vs. the standard reporting methods.


- put a sub in the middle of the convoy to create more trouble.


Otherwise, I like how it's working to simulate a shadowing sub transmitting beacons.

[John Pancoast]

If anyone is interested settings of: ReportPosMin=60 ReportPosProbability=75
have been working very well for me with the twelve convoys involved. Simulates both a u-boat(s) sending beacons on a regular basis with enough irregularity to also simulate them being driven down/off at times.
Pack is attacking as normal.

[FUBAR295]

John,

Thanks for posting this.

I think you have struck a good balance for realism.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

John,

Thanks for posting this.

I think you have struck a good balance for realism.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Pack has sunk three ships so far in a current patrol, I've just now got close enough to barely spot one on fire approx. 12km off with the watch crying "Smoke on the horizon !" courtesy of Stiebler's patch.