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Old 08-08-2005, 08:59 AM   #1
CB..
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Default Wolfpacks & Multiplayer Missions

maybe the old SH2 trick might allso work in SH3 regarding Sub agression and AI behavuoir....we used to set (or i did at least) subs up as destroyers..it might be possible to replace one class of german destroyer with the required sub model details etc....reason why this might be an interesting way to go (if possible ) is that destroyers have torpedoe tubes..(does the game model this?) and if so the subs may just fire their torps..depending on all the usual issues of course..such as model file nodes names functions etc etc..
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Old 08-08-2005, 09:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB..
destroyers have torpedoe tubes..(does the game model this?) and if so the subs may just fire their torps..
No, AI units in SH3 units don´t fire torpedos, even the torpedo bombers throw bombs...
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Old 08-08-2005, 09:22 AM   #3
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that's a dang shame i'm sure theyres something that can be done perhaps ..maybe the speed for a modified deck gun shell can slowed down to torpeoe like speeds made much more powerfull and the entire sub model damage collision boxes etc can be shifted under the water (other wise the DD's will just kill them instantly..)lol...beyond me at the moment but Serg' is a whizz at this stuff
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Old 08-09-2005, 01:16 AM   #4
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We think alike sometimes CB, I too wondered about the same thing. I didn't realise the ships didn't fire torps, but may be that can be changed by adding some of the sub parameters in to the ships parameters then IF it works then you may be half way to changing the sub's AI.
I believe the AI subs fire the deck gun, perhaps the deck gun an AI subs could be made more powerful to compensate no torpedoes, just a thought.

I did have quick play with AI subs, one thing they did do was draw a bit of fire away from the player sub, giving me a better chance of a decent shot.
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Old 08-09-2005, 01:56 AM   #5
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perhaps a wolf pack amd or torpedo attack can be simulated with a spawning mine field (if such a thing were possible)
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Old 08-09-2005, 05:59 PM   #6
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here's a little food for thought even if the ships have not been seen to fire torpedos they are equiped with them..here's the torp weaponary node and equipment from the NDD HuntIII EQP file

[Equipment 11]
NodeName=T01
LinkName=21TorpedoTriple
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


maybe they've just never been in a situation where the AI felt triggered to use them

if so this is right up Serg's street with some renaming of nodes and swopping of ai files subs may be bamboozeled into doing the same.. mind you f they can't be made to submerge then it aint going to be overly use-full long term..might be good for early war night time wolfpack surface attacks tho

anyhuw just to up date the thread to say yes the DD's (some anyhuw) have got torpedo weaponary nodes included in their cfgs


here's the main gun from the same DD

[Equipment 1]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=4InchDouble
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


perhaps a simple editing to this might prompt a torp launch instead of deck gun fire when provoked..either that or nothing will happen or the game will crash

[Equipment 1]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=21TorpedoTriple
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


my bets on the AI just never quite getting into situations where it triggers a torp type attack not much ship v ship combat seems to take place
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Old 08-10-2005, 01:05 AM   #7
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You might be right there CB, I remember in SH2 I put 4 British DD's against 4 German DD's and a Cruiser, the British DD's fired off torpedoes at the cruiser.

I keep wondering if some of the SH2 codes might work in SH3 as well, I might get out some of my old backed up disks and try a few.
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:22 AM   #8
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theyre may be difference in AI response depending on wether the ships is part of the RND file or the SCR file....(? possibility)
try sending a few DDHUNTIII's against a german Battleship (perhaps include a brit BB to direct the germans BB's main fire away from the DD's 9or they'll be dead before they can get within torp range) the HUNTIII's do have torpedo loudouts and weapon nodes so if there's any chance of them useing torps then they should use them against overwheming odds.?
no point the AI useing them against anything smaller that they can finish of with their main guns..

what about the torpedo boats surely they can be persuaded to launch torps..?


i'm becoming curious about these
weapon and sensor entrys for the EQP file

[Equipment 1]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=4InchDouble
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

etc
etc

very similar insome respects to the SH2 sytem except that most ships (not all tho) have all their equipment and weapons on line right from 1938 onwards....the campaign seems to use different DD's to replicate the increase in capability of the DD's rather than up-date-ing the sensors on those allready there (for example going from the HUNTI to the HUNTII as escort for a new convoy that starts in 42 the earlier one ends in 42 and so on..) me thinks that altering the EQP file dates for the later sensor would allow perhaps the campaign to automatically update the type of sensor depending on the date on the campaign/mission/patrol..rather than relying on replacing the dd with a later type...(which requires an entirely new convoy to be included)

trouble with this is the convoy's CFG date in the RND file..which seems to suggest that the ships sensor weaponary date is tied to a constant date rather than dynamically adjusting to the in game date..

so the HUNT II if included early on in the war allready carries its late war weapons sensors simply because it hasn't got a graduated date for the introduction of the newer stuff in the EQP file (everything is dated from 38) AND your limited to the RND convoys CFG date entry...mind you ive probably mised the plot somewhere here..but if not there's a lot of minor but highly impactive alterations that can be made so that the early war DD's can carry late war sensor and weapons which means that convoy escorted by Hunt I DD's will get tougher as the war progresses..

havent messed with it yet just looked at it with a view to hiking the difficulty level a bit..you could just replace all DD HUNT I's with HUNT II's and do it that way (ive tried this and will let you know how it goes on)

but there's no indication that i have seen of a minimal introduction date for the DD HUNTII's so haveing them appear in 38 will either be perfectly ok or if there's a restriction somewhere i haven't found it will obviously crash the campaign ...
which is why the dynamic sensor weapon dates via the EQP files would be best..but that convoy RND cfg date for the DD's is confusing me..not only in the editor does it limit you to 38 or 39...but it might allso mean that setting it manualy by text editor to 42 or 43 might cause problems some where else and it doesn't allow for any progression other than have-ing a completely new convoy replacing the older one at a set date...whilst this allows for greater variety i convoy make up etc it does seem to be wastefull
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB..
if there's any chance of them useing torps then they should use them against overwheming odds.?
That´s wishful thinking! They won´t use torpedos. Never ever. It also makes no difference if the ships are part of the RND or the SCR layer, or whom they fight against.

If you come back here in a while and tell us that you have made them fire torpedos - and that they even use a correct lead angle - I assure you that every community member gives you their first-born son or daughter! Or at least they spend you a beer or two, that´s your choice...
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:25 PM   #10
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i'd just wish that folks would be a little less hasty to say never , it's not possible when quite often after some time and experimentation it becomes possible....it's not a matter of who does it or even for that matter how lol....just that folks don't give up before trying simply because some-body said NO very loudly....been thru all this over and over again with SH2...i simply don't take any notice at all when any one says "that's" not possible...

not to say i can do it....but bet your bottom dollar it CAN be done..and thats the important difference...give it a year or two and they'll be AI subs galavanting all round the place shooting torps at anything that moves..i garantee it..
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB..
i'd just wish that folks would be a little less hasty to say never , it's not possible when quite often after some time and experimentation it becomes possible...
You were speculating and all I´ve said is that they currently don´t use torpedos, no matter what you do. I am well aware that mods can do magic things...
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:44 AM   #12
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Jolly Good
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Old 08-20-2005, 05:44 PM   #13
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Default is sub vs sub possible???

could anyone please provide me information on this topic.
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Old 08-21-2005, 12:14 AM   #14
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Welcome to the forum!

Player vs. Player you could do that, the AI subs in the game can only use their deckgun, they also don´t dive.

The thing is, WW2 subs were never made for this role. There were only a few cases in WW2 and then it was a surface engagement where a spread of torpedos was fired against a surfaced enemy sub.

The biggest problem is that torpedos are not guided (except for late-war acoustic torpedos). A sub-surface engagement is extremely difficult. The easiest part would be to detect the enemy by Hydrophone, the difficult part is to actually hit it. That would be pure luck.

Then there is the technical limitation that you can´t tell the torpedo to run deeper than 25m. That "problem" hasn´t been solved yet.
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Old 08-21-2005, 01:10 AM   #15
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thankz for taking the time to reply.

That aside , is it possible to set the other player as enemy?? that way at least your weapons offive could get a firing solution on your multiplayer opponent.


i want to know if is possible to have human controlled sub vs. human controlled sub.
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