US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Rockstar]

If it helps by “believing” in this or that so you sleep better at night. Here’s to good health.

[Otto Harkaman]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I didn't say that.
Personally I believe
Trump will be found not-guilty or he will get a fine.

Prison no. I do not believe this.

Markus

Here is what the true punishment is going to be, its going to be the tax payer who ends up paying for this "investigation" and if the Starr Investigation cost the tax payers $52 million it will be easily doubled that.

$52 Million Starr Probe Costliest Ever

Former independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr spent more than $52 million investigating President Clinton, officially making his Whitewater and Monica S. Lewinsky probe the most costly independent counsel investigation ever, according to a General Accounting Office report released yesterday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-f66c87326e82/

[Skybird]

You pay with something much worse than dollars. You pay with the destruction of your political culture, the completion of the erosion of trust into institutions, and a polarization that sooner or later must lead to violent extremes and fanatism exceeding the scale if it does not get stopped.



You pay with fulfilling Russia's hopes.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You pay with something much worse than dollars. You pay with the destruction of your political culture, the completion of the erosion of trust into institutions, and a polarization that sooner or later must lead to violent extremes and fanatism exceeding the scale if it does not get stopped.



You pay with fulfilling Russia's hopes.

The political culture is working just fine IMO because I think the vast majority of people think this is exactly how it’s supposed to be. We’re a world predominantly made up of gullible morons who don’t know any better. Being spoon fed tailored information we’re left to argue with each other over feelings, best guesses, cut and paste wars, jabbing each other in ernest trying to defend our opinions and bias about things we honestly know nothing about. The people feeding you know you better than you know yourself and it just ends up getting regurgitated.

#1. Use hot-button issues to stir up controversy like abortion, monkey pox, polio, gay marriage, race, BLM, Nazis, facists, white supremecy, terrorist, Muslims, police or some other politically charged drama that doesn’t affect the establishment directly. I oft wondered whatever happened to Occupy Wall Street. I’m thinking because they actually directed everyone’s attention towards politicians and corporations it was all quickly put down and forgotten. Notice now not much is said about, about spending, abuse, wages, inflation, future of the country, foreign or domestic policy. You know those things that would reflect directly on the leadership. Nope just party DERP.

#2. Have one group get emotionally outraged or do something that will provoke a emotional reaction from the other group.

#3. Let the people vent out their anger onto each other and get at each other’s throats.

#4. When the issue fades away, foment a new controversy and wash, rinse, repeat to maintain the status quo. No evidence necessary “just believe”. But like I said if it helps you sleep better a night all the more power to ya, it’s your world.

[Otto Harkaman]

[Rockstar]

‘It’s just a ride, you can get off anytime you want.” - Bill Hicks

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If it helps by “believing” in this or that so you sleep better at night. Here’s to good health.

LOL

[Dowly]

How many Trump supporters does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

None. Trump says it’s changed and his supporters all cheer in the dark.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Dowly

He didn't. The documents were kept in Hoffman Estates by the NARA, since it was planned that the Barack Obama Presidential Library would be located there. NARA had the documents, not Obama.

No, not according to the legal agreement signed by the Obama Foundation and NARA in 2018.

paragrapgh 7 of the legal agreement states:

7. The Obama Foundation agrees to transfer up to ...[$3,300,000]... to support the move of classified and unclassified Obama Presidential records and artifacts from Hoffman Estates to NARA-controlled facilities that conform to the agency's archival storage standards for such records and artifacts, and for the modification of such spaces.

https://www.obama.org/wp-content/upl...F-NARA-LOI.pdf

It is written in black and white that "Hoffman Estates" holds "classified" documents and that it is NOT a "NARA-controlled facilities that conforms to the agency's archival storage standards for such record".

Hard to be more clear than that.

These agreements are negotiated, drafted and reviewed by lawyers on both sides and the language is carefully chosen. What is clear from the legal agreement is that in september 2018, NARA was still negotiating with Obama's team on how to handle the "classifed" documents.

This takes us right back to the original question, i.e. why is Trump being treated different than Obama? NARA negotiated with Obama but with Trump they ask DOJ to launch a criminal investigation?

Here's NARA's statement from August 12:

That NARA press release is a joke since it directly contradicts the 2018 legal agreement, but reaction to it does not surprise me at all. Anti-Trumpers will grasp at any straw if they think it will somehow hurt Trump.

[mapuc]

A question

Could Obama access these paper mentioned in post #4014

If so how easily had he access to them ?

Markus

[Catfish]

I cannot rmember Trump making any proposal for handing over or storing his classified papers, be it to Nara or any "foundation", not secretly, not publicly, rather not at all. He clearly wanted to keep them himself, alone. Or am i wrong?
This is a tiny bit of difference for me.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Dowly

How many Trump supporters does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

None. Trump says it’s changed and his supporters all cheer in the dark.

We don't force changes in lightbulbs, we let the market decide.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

No, not according to the legal agreement signed by the Obama Foundation and NARA in 2018.

paragrapgh 7 of the legal agreement states:



https://www.obama.org/wp-content/upl...F-NARA-LOI.pdf

The records were stored in Hoffman Estates temporarely from where they where then moved to NARA's own facilities when Obama decided to not build a Presidential Library but instead go with the digitization route. Paragraph 7 simply states that Obama is financially supporting NARA in moving the documents. The records remained in NARA's ownership all the way through. That you whine about anti-trump this, anti-trump that when it comes to NARA's own statement in the matter is your problem, just don't mistake it for a valid argument.


https://www.archives.gov/publication...archivist.html

When a President has served two full terms, as President Obama has, we have time to plan. The decision to build the future Obama Library in Chicago was made in 2015, and this year a temporary storage site was chosen in the Chicago area.

https://share.america.gov/clearing-o...sidents-attic/

The trucks are headed for Illinois to the temporary headquarters of the Obama Library, until the permanent library in Chicago opens in 2021.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...531-story.html

A massive volume of paperwork, electronic data and artifacts will find a temporary home at the old Plunkett Home Furnishings store on Golf Road in Hoffman Estates.

[..]
The National Archives employees will organize, digitize and preserve the contents of what is sometimes called the "president's attic," said John Laster, who directs the Presidential Materials Division at the agency and has toured the Hoffman Estates site.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I cannot rmember Trump making any proposal for handing over or storing his classified papers, be it to Nara or any "foundation", not secretly, not publicly, rather not at all. He clearly wanted to keep them himself, alone. Or am i wrong?
This is a tiny bit of difference for me.

Trump gave the Feds 15 boxes of of his personal papers at the beginning of this year and was in negotiations to give them more, but you can't "remember" eh?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

This is the same Government that FAKED it's Space Program to appear more advanced then it ever was.

It's true, I saw the documentary.