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Old 03-28-2020, 08:23 AM   #1636
John Pancoast
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I cannot say for certain, but maybe it's the Save folder doing it to you now, pulling old data... - You could try to copy your Save folder somewhere for safe-keeping, then delete what is in there now, and see if the text edits "keep"... I don't really think it's that though... It's been forever since I edited SH3 campaign files, and cannot remember much about it, other than it was a nightmare because the game is very 'sensitive' about them...

Did you make yourself a little "modlet" for your edits? If you do that, you can go back and forth as you do your "testing" of the edits. If prior to activating your mod, the Space= lines are all set the way you want, and then when you "activate" your mod, they all change to 500m after running the game again, you'll know there is something wrong in your version of the file ("Thank you Mr Obvious 2800 RGG and "something" is incorrect... sigh...")



I'll try that save folder idea, worth a shot, thanks. Yep, have a mod folder made up for it though I then also just replaced the file in data/campaigns/campaign itself to try, with the same results.


NYGM 2017 has the .rnd file in question, so I can always just copy it back into the game folder if needed.


While the spacing change would be nice, I'd really like the crew rating changes to hold to try to make the escorts a bit more escort-like.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:42 AM   #1637
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Have an idea that Hebe's and your posts brought to mind. As I said, I changed the 500 meter spacing to 700 too.


Since everything changes to 500 afterwards, I bet my changing those is the cause of the problem.


I'll try to just changing the convoys originally 700 meters to 900 and see what happens.


If that works I'll use the same method to figure out why the crew ratings aren't holding either.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:55 AM   #1638
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OK, using my GWX as a test bed (NYGM is on a different computer ), I just did some "Spacing=" edits using Notepad and went to activate my little mod... Nothing... When I looked in the Campaign folder, I had inadvertently gorfotten to change the "Save" parameters in Notepad to "All | *.*" and instead of "Campaign_RND.mis" I had a "Campaign_RND.mis.txt" file in there... Whoops! Be sure your oldmanitis isn't attacking you right now also! I used my Notepad++ instead, did a "blanket" Search and Replace, changing all "Spacing=500" lines to "Spacing=562" so that they would be easier to see with the human eye, and after running a new career, they are all still at "562"...
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:01 AM   #1639
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OK, using my GWX as a test bed (NYGM is on a different computer ), I just did some "Spacing=" edits using Notepad and went to activate my little mod... Nothing... When I looked in the Campaign folder, I had inadvertently gorfotten to change the "Save" parameters in Notepad to "All | *.*" and instead of "Campaign_RND.mis" I had a "Campaign_RND.mis.txt" file in there... Whoops! Be sure your oldmanitis isn't attacking you right now also! I used my Notepad++ instead, did a "blanket" Search and Replace, changing all "Spacing=500" lines to "Spacing=562" so that they would be easier to see with the human eye, and after running a new career, they are all still at "562"...

Oldmanitis !?! Hey, I resemble that remark ! Anyway, all files are named correctly, thanks though.



Have you contacted a convoy yet ? My changes would look fine in the file, but as soon as I hit a convoy it's spacing was 500.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:35 AM   #1640
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No, I did not stay in long enough to even leave the docks. Just long enough to see if the game changed the files... So your text-edited files remain "valid" looking to you after-the-fact, but the game seemingly interprets them into "Ubisoft SHIII" language instead, and does what it wants anyway?... ?? - I'll be a while, and I'll get on my other computer later this afternoon... I'll have to take me a break from the "Honey-Do" list I've got (which is now longer than my arm ) later on, and I'll use that as my "break time"... "why yes, dear? No, I'm just checking my email. That "boom!" noise? Oh no, it was nothing. I almost fell out of the chair is what that was!"...
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:43 AM   #1641
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No, I did not stay in long enough to even leave the docks. Just long enough to see if the game changed the files... So your text-edited files remain "valid" looking to you after-the-fact, but the game seemingly interprets them into "Ubisoft SHIII" language instead, and does what it wants anyway?... ?? - I'll be a while, and I'll get on my other computer later this afternoon... I'll have to take me a break from the "Honey-Do" list I've got (which is now longer than my arm ) later on, and I'll use that as my "break time"... "why yes, dear? No, I'm just checking my email. That "boom!" noise? Oh no, it was nothing. I almost fell out of the chair is what that was!"...



Yes, I'd look at them while sailing and all was good. Then I'd hit a convoy and the spacing would be 500 meters !


I'm going to do my idea per above after the current patrol and see what happens.


Just like the basic physics law of for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction, you realize any "Honey-Do" list has a "Honey-Don't" list as in........................"Honey, don't bother me now I'm busy !"
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:00 AM   #1642
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My "Honey Don't" list was apparently written with invisible ink - her's was written in bold, red, super-sized text... - may-haps me needs to do a pinch more of "Honey Do"... ??
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:33 AM   #1643
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My "Honey Don't" list was apparently written with invisible ink - her's was written in bold, red, super-sized text... - may-haps me needs to do a pinch more of "Honey Do"... ??



<furtively looking over shoulder> Hey, show her who's boss ! <quickly posting and getting out of subsim.com>
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:34 PM   #1644
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Eh, the last few-couple of days around midwest U.S. of A. have not been good... thunder-boomers have been on the attack, and I keep losing the internet and electricity in the middle of trying to "fix" my Steam SH3 on a Win10 laptop, which is in itself not going well... Either Steam or Windows or Ubisoft or myself (primary suspect) have mucked things up...

Anyway John Pancoast, one thing to remember about Random Generated Groups (RGG), which would (should) be in the Campaign_RND file, and the "regular" groups and units, which should be in the Campaign_SCR layer, is that the devs apparently did not fully-develop "convoying" as a paradigm. It seems to only be approximated. You have a Group "leader", and you have waypoints, and while it would be nice to see proper "convoying" in the groups, the AI just can't quite do it. All of the vessels want to go toward that set waypoint, and in geometric terms, all of the various ships' (and planes') paths will meet at or near that point.

Then there is the issue of the "set speed" for the groups. As an example, in a given groups' Properties page, there is a "MaxSpeed", and each waypoint will have a "Speed" setting, of necessity, the inside units of a formation would have to slow down, while the outside units would have to speed up, for the group to maintain "convoying" as they negotiate the waypoint location. The AI attempts this, but usually only from a "collision avoidance" perspective - at least, near as I can tell. You also have the "rudder" and "drag" effect that slows a vessel as it turns. The game allows for some "flexibility" in this regard, just by virtue of its math, but nothing specific to handle it.

Taking into consideration that the game has a minimum spacing of 500 meters for ships, and a 300 meters spacing for planes, once you "see" what they do at waypoints, you can begin to appreciate why they have those "minimums", and also why setting the value higher does not always function the way us mere humans think they should. Just so long as they don't run into each other too often, much beyond the realm of believability, unless its a collier running over the DD about to pounce on you... - you sometimes also have to adjust the "routing", and not make the "turns" so sharp, of a lesser degree and longer period of time...
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Old 03-29-2020, 04:20 PM   #1645
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Eh, the last few-couple of days around midwest U.S. of A. have not been good... thunder-boomers have been on the attack, and I keep losing the internet and electricity in the middle of trying to "fix" my Steam SH3 on a Win10 laptop, which is in itself not going well... Either Steam or Windows or Ubisoft or myself (primary suspect) have mucked things up...

Anyway John Pancoast, one thing to remember about Random Generated Groups (RGG), which would (should) be in the Campaign_RND file, and the "regular" groups and units, which should be in the Campaign_SCR layer, is that the devs apparently did not fully-develop "convoying" as a paradigm. It seems to only be approximated. You have a Group "leader", and you have waypoints, and while it would be nice to see proper "convoying" in the groups, the AI just can't quite do it. All of the vessels want to go toward that set waypoint, and in geometric terms, all of the various ships' (and planes') paths will meet at or near that point.

Then there is the issue of the "set speed" for the groups. As an example, in a given groups' Properties page, there is a "MaxSpeed", and each waypoint will have a "Speed" setting, of necessity, the inside units of a formation would have to slow down, while the outside units would have to speed up, for the group to maintain "convoying" as they negotiate the waypoint location. The AI attempts this, but usually only from a "collision avoidance" perspective - at least, near as I can tell. You also have the "rudder" and "drag" effect that slows a vessel as it turns. The game allows for some "flexibility" in this regard, just by virtue of its math, but nothing specific to handle it.

Taking into consideration that the game has a minimum spacing of 500 meters for ships, and a 300 meters spacing for planes, once you "see" what they do at waypoints, you can begin to appreciate why they have those "minimums", and also why setting the value higher does not always function the way us mere humans think they should. Just so long as they don't run into each other too often, much beyond the realm of believability, unless its a collier running over the DD about to pounce on you... - you sometimes also have to adjust the "routing", and not make the "turns" so sharp, of a lesser degree and longer period of time...

Thanks for the info. The main reason I want to increase the column spacing is to maybe help the AI in NYGM to do this sort of sorting in a better fashion, along with their reaction to a sunk ship in their column(s).


GWX has larger spacing and I haven't noticed this problem as much in it vs. NYGM. Maybe that's just luck though, don't know.
But I've got a lot of time in both.



Makes one wonder if the stock sinking model was at least partly done to get a hit ship out of the way asap so as not to disrupt the other ships movement.
Though this problem also exists in stock at times, so perhaps not.


Anyway, now today my editing of the .rnd file is holding; go figure.
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Old 03-29-2020, 08:34 PM   #1646
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...
Makes one wonder if the stock sinking model was at least partly done to get a hit ship out of the way asap so as not to disrupt the other ships movement.
Though this problem also exists in stock at times, so perhaps not...
- could be, but the quick sinking in stock is just because of human nature "why won't this ship sink in less than a minute?"
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:36 PM   #1647
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John Pancoast, I am having a time of it getting my SH3 to properly copy and allow a mod. If I get one mod to run, it ruins the other copies of the game. If I then get a 2nd mod to run, it ruins the settings in the first... I am at a loss as to what the Windows Update and / or the UPlay update the other day did to my machine... Have you gotten satisfaction with your edits?
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Old 04-01-2020, 03:24 PM   #1648
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John Pancoast, I am having a time of it getting my SH3 to properly copy and allow a mod. If I get one mod to run, it ruins the other copies of the game. If I then get a 2nd mod to run, it ruins the settings in the first... I am at a loss as to what the Windows Update and / or the UPlay update the other day did to my machine... Have you gotten satisfaction with your edits?
Yes, I did nothing different that I know of but everything's holding now.

Very strange.

Haven't seen in noticeable difference in escort behavior with the crew ratings changes but have only run into a couple convoys.
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:26 PM   #1649
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Well propbeanie, just had another 500 m convoy when all spacing still reads 900 in the .rnd.


Who knows. I guess the crew ratings changes didn't do anything either as I just attacked submerged in broad daylight with my scope fully up the entire time (11 m/s wind) with two escorts within 500 m of me.
Approx. ten minutes or so of this.



No reaction what so ever. The AI in this game would have to improve just to be bad.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:53 AM   #1650
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Well, I have been busy with raccoons in the attic for this past week, and have not had the time necessary to dedicate to serious attempts at getting my Win10 laptop going with SH3. I have a Steam version, and something either they or Windows did with their recent updates trashed all but my Stock copy, which I then proceeded to ruin trying to get NYGM & GWX back up and running, so I have not been able to begin to attempt to look at what my set-up would do. All I can suggest would be to make certain you haven't accidentally overwritten the AI Visual, or sonar, etc., since it seemed to me that NYGM was rather adept at seeing my periscope if I kept it up while moving... although 11ms winds will whip the waves pretty good... - but 500 meters is rather close... Is the convoy zig-zagging? Had it recently turned?
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