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Old 06-25-2019, 04:13 PM   #391
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@skybird

Apart from the money considerations (we do not plan to be a part of organisation and pay for membership if we have no voice in it), it is also about retaining instruments of influence over Russia, such as the courts. If Russia leaves the council of Europe it would leave the jurisdiction of say relevant human rights courts such as the ECHR, which were used a number of times to pressure the Russian state.
I dont buy it. Its more than just coincidental that France, Spain, Germany and others give Russia its will just days before the long absence from the institution and the payment obligation would lead to the legal consequences of ending Russia'S membership permanently (there is some 2-year- limit rule, and Russia has suspended its payments almost 2 years ago now) - and so would also end its financial contributions in the years to come which make for 7% of the total annual budget, and its its outstanding membership payments, of the past 2 years would be lost as well. Also, it paves the way for mulling an easing of the sanctions. You see, Europeans companies want to do business with Russia again.


Its not as if I ever believed the sanctions would work the way it was hoped, or that I think the general Western stand on Russia since the 00-years is founded on intelligence and strength. Its a pityful attempt by the EU to be perceived as a strong global player while reality is that neither America nor China nor Russia take Europe especially serious, due to its internal rifts and weaknesses and growing problems, and weak military. What makes me sick is the Western self-betrayal in all this: to claim one were so seriously dedicated to the noble and the true motives in all the completely story - and then horse-trading all that away so easily when it comes to money. I just dispise weakness and corruptness.



The EU tries to egg-dance back and forth between Ukraine, and Russia, wnating to pelase bothg and not loosing any of the two. That cannot lead to anything else but ridicule, acchieveing not evben one of the two wanted things. Putin on the other hand acts much more focussed, determined, and with a stronger sense of reality. Practically all his foreign political operaitosn and adventures, Syria, Crimean peninsula, Eastern Ukraine, allienace with China, work out the way he wanted, and got him what he wan ted - and he will keep what he took. The fabulous EU, however, reminds of a hysteric hen-house, and tumbles towards the next catastrophic systemic financial disaster. But still boast with wanting to give a compass to the world... A mouse that tries to roar. Putin did not care. China stayed unimpressed. And then came Trump.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:30 AM   #392
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My point is that in addition to the money there are other considerations.


Such as maintaining ways to pressure Russia via the courts and getting control over the runaway influence Ukraine&co hold over that institution.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:54 AM   #393
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We are way OT.. recent posts should be moved to a to be created "Russian politics" thread?
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:00 AM   #394
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Agreed, this thread is supposed to be about Malaysian Airlines MH317.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:16 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
We are way OT.. recent posts should be moved to a to be created "Russian politics" thread?
I am not sure if there are Russians other than me on this forum. So it would be populated by misinformed foreighners.
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:25 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by ikalugin View Post
I am not sure if there are Russians other than me on this forum. So it would be populated by misinformed foreighners.
I believe you are incorrect but can't say for sure what the actual number is so might I suggest you or someone else create a thread for the purpose of carrying the above discussion onward.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:10 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by ikalugin View Post
I am not sure if there are Russians other than me on this forum. So it would be populated by misinformed foreighners.

That is the whole idea of political threads.. and you will then have to sort out those.. misinformations. Why not turn the tables.

I did not have much knowledge about British or US politics (nor do i now ahem), but we all chime in to ask, claim and discuss, it is a good thing to learn more about other countries; much better than reading tabloid media or Facebook anyway.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:18 AM   #398
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ikalugin you can count on me - I am Russian as well :-) Pioneer's honest word.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:28 AM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikalugin View Post
I am not sure if there are Russians other than me on this forum. So it would be populated by misinformed foreighners.


That hasn't stop you and others from posting on the US and UK political threads.
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:15 AM   #400
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Sorted: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...39#post2615839
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