[TEC] Radio depth

[ETR3(SS)]

The great mystery is solved! The answer lies in the 3d model of the boats hull, when the last vertex is underwater the game flags you as submerged.


I started testing each class of boat to see when they would flag, starting with the S-boats. My eyebrow was raised when the Porpoise flagged at 40-41 ft. S-boats flagged at 30 and everything else at 39. So I took my Newsub template and edited the 3d model by removing the flagstaff aft but leaving the navigation lights there. Test revealed a submerged depth of 31 ft.

[propbeanie]

... but that is the sub hull, and not the sail, unless of course, it is integrated into the hull? Or does that count also?

[Jeff-Groves]

Just add one vert to the hull and place it as high as you want.
You could add an object as high as you want but hide it with settings so it does not show in Game.

As a test? Take the Antena on one of the Conning towers and move it way up.
If no change? Add something to the hull way up high.

[Bubblehead1980]

Somewhere around 34-37 feet radio can transmit contact reports. I assume that is when the sail breaks the water enough to transmit. Yet another flaw courtesy of ubi.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

... but that is the sub hull, and not the sail, unless of course, it is integrated into the hull? Or does that count also?

Correct, it seems the sail doesn't matter at all. If you joined the 2 in blender or some other such program it would make a difference.

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Just add one vert to the hull and place it as high as you want.
You could add an object as high as you want but hide it with settings so it does not show in Game.

As a test? Take the Antena on one of the Conning towers and move it way up.
If no change? Add something to the hull way up high.

Precisely what I was thinking, add a single vertex to trick the game. I've tried moving the Antenna node in the game to no effect. I believe the game strictly checks the hull 3d model only.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Somewhere around 34-37 feet radio can transmit contact reports. I assume that is when the sail breaks the water enough to transmit. Yet another flaw courtesy of ubi.

That's less than 39 ft which would have the flagstaff sticking out of the water, ergo the boat isn't "submerged." I wouldn't go so far as to call it a flaw though, more an oversight. It does have me curious as to how SH3 handles this same scenario though.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Correct, it seems the sail doesn't matter at all. If you joined the 2 in blender or some other such program it would make a difference.

Precisely what I was thinking, add a single vertex to trick the game. I've tried moving the Antenna node in the game to no effect. I believe the game strictly checks the hull 3d model only.

That's less than 39 ft which would have the flagstaff sticking out of the water, ergo the boat isn't "submerged." I wouldn't go so far as to call it a flaw though, more an oversight. It does have me curious as to how SH3 handles this same scenario though.

Yes, sub becomes visible to enemy as the sail etc is exposed so when close in on a task force or convoy (and have to get ridiculously close in the game to send a contact report anyways) you often expose yourself to being detecting, ruining any set up, plus gunfire from nearby ships and even ramming. Have had all three happen when tried to send contact report submerged. Definitely a flaw or an oversight (among many others).

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

The great mystery is solved! The answer lies in the 3d model of the boats hull, when the last vertex is underwater the game flags you as submerged.


I started testing each class of boat to see when they would flag, starting with the S-boats. My eyebrow was raised when the Porpoise flagged at 40-41 ft. S-boats flagged at 30 and everything else at 39. So I took my Newsub template and edited the 3d model by removing the flagstaff aft but leaving the navigation lights there. Test revealed a submerged depth of 31 ft.

so.....if i understand the thread, the radio is not a "part" like the radar or sonar or deck gun, it just is, like the flag or any one of several "parts".
when the boat submerges, a bit is flipped that indicates that the radio will not transmit and when the boat surfaces, that bit status is reversed.
we, as modders, cannot manipulate the radio as we can manipulate other "parts".

[propbeanie]

If you look at the conn of most any of the US subs, there is a "radio antenna" up top, on the shears. However, there is no "node" associated with it, so it is not a "radio antenna" in the way the "radar antenna" is to the boat. Also, from what ETR3(SS) is saying, it doesn't matter anyway, because the submarine dat file for the hull is what determines if you are submerged or surfaced... Now, with this info, making a little vertex (vortex in this case??) set to invisible that sticks up about where the periscope is when elevated should let you use your comms... maybe... Would the AI be able to see that, as they would a periscope?... A submarine with an integrated conn would not need that, since its shears are there... the periscope however, is its own entity... hmmm... - but I have been able to fone home while submerged, but it is above periscope depth, but not quite to radar depth on one of the boats (Tambor??), yet on another, it is above radar depth... maybe it does count the shears as part of the boat?... I dunno... after what we just went through with the AI subs, I'm about all "tested" out... lol

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

so.....if i understand the thread, the radio is not a "part" like the radar or sonar or deck gun, it just is, like the flag or any one of several "parts".
when the boat submerges, a bit is flipped that indicates that the radio will not transmit and when the boat surfaces, that bit status is reversed.
we, as modders, cannot manipulate the radio as we can manipulate other "parts".

This is correct. The only way to circumvent this would be to edit the 3d model itself in 3ds, blender, or whatever.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

If you look at the conn of most any of the US subs, there is a "radio antenna" up top, on the shears. However, there is no "node" associated with it, so it is not a "radio antenna" in the way the "radar antenna" is to the boat. Also, from what ETR3(SS) is saying, it doesn't matter anyway, because the submarine dat file for the hull is what determines if you are submerged or surfaced... Now, with this info, making a little vertex (vortex in this case??) set to invisible that sticks up about where the periscope is when elevated should let you use your comms... maybe... Would the AI be able to see that, as they would a periscope?... A submarine with an integrated conn would not need that, since its shears are there... the periscope however, is its own entity... hmmm... - but I have been able to fone home while submerged, but it is above periscope depth, but not quite to radar depth on one of the boats (Tambor??), yet on another, it is above radar depth... maybe it does count the shears as part of the boat?... I dunno... after what we just went through with the AI subs, I'm about all "tested" out... lol

If it is just a vertex (vertex singular, vertices plural) you add then I believe it would be undetectable by the AI (It's been a while since I've tested it, but the AI sees nodes and not models). Of course doing this has the side effect of the game thinking you are surfaced and allowing all normal surfaced evolutions (such as running on diesels). My Nuc boats are not immune from this behavior despite having an integrated sail, hence the nuc boats are submerged at around 32 ft. As I mentioned earlier, the depth at which you can transmit will be completely dependent upon the design of the 3d model. For a more consistent experience, I'd recommend altering the 3d models of all fleet boats. Things to alter would be the removal of real life removable objects such as the flag staff, jack staff, stanchions, and lifelines. Things to keep would be the cleats, bollards, capstans, and navigation lights.

[ETR3(SS)]

So just performed a test of the theory with mixed results. A single vertex will not work UNLESS it is attached to another vertex creating some sort of geometry. Since I knew the highest point on the default hull was the flagstaff aft, I cloned a vertex from there and moved it out on the Y axis. Didn't work, game wasn't fooled. I tried again this time moving the vertices at the end of the flagstaff along the same axis, result was a "submerged" depth of 67 ft.


Now, the another downside to this is the uv mapping. If the number of vertices of the uv map doesn't match the number of vertices on the model, then you'll get an all black boat. I do wonder however if we could make the node invisible much like the DMG_NSS_Balao node and include an unaltered 3d model on another node that was visible.

[Jeff-Groves]

Attach a 3d mesh to the hull (Don't matter what it is)
Set it to invisible and move it up as a test.

[Mad Mardigan]

Hey guys...

Been following the convo here for a bit, and have to say that I am fascinated by the prospect of it being figured out to be able to send a contact report, while submerged.

Something that crossed My ol' dusty, rusted, beat up HD of a brain..

Know the radio, part of the gramophone side of things.. is a horse of a different color, but bear with Me on this. I often will turn that thing on & listen to news & music while tooling about while on a patrol.

What got Me to thinking was this bit.. when you submerge, (I think it is in the radio.ini. if I have that right..) that when you submerge to a particular depth.. the radio tunes out or loses the signal. With the S class boat, however, upon hitting peri depth.. the radio would be.. not full strength but would still get a signal. The other boats, would be the time they hit peri depth, would have that signal lost, altogether.

Now, knowing that bit of info.. that got Me to thinking.. what if the control for that, could somehow have the nodes, vertices whatever it is that is tied to the ability to send/receive messages & have that tied into the controller for the controller for the radio for news & music.. between that control there.. & maybe say.. adjusting peri depth to say.. ohh, 2 or 3' lower in the files that control that aspect.. would come together & allow for being able to send/receive messages.

Would that be possibly feasible...

I freely admit, I don't know jack about modding, especially when it comes to things nowadays.. I used to do a bit of tinkering about with that, but.. that was many, MANY moons ago..

Just spit balling here... & hope My train of thought there, helps kick some rock loose to produce a 'Eureka' moment...

M. M

[propbeanie]

I wonder how much the SubName cfg file has to do with the relation between the 3D artwork, and those settings. For example:

S-18
-----

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=15.5;meters
SnorkelDepth=9.2;meters

Gato
----

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.6;meters
SnorkelDepth=12.8;meters

The Gato's snorkel depth (radar depth) is very similar to the S-18's periscope depth...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Just spit balling here...

what in the hell is spitballin'?

[propbeanie]

That's where you take your old Bic stick pen, pull the pen portion out of the tube, take a little piece of paper, chew it in your mouth to make a mush you then insert in the pen tube, then blow it really hard to hit your 6th grade teacher in the back of the head, only to have her turn around just after launch, and hit he square between the eyes, and she sees you with the Bic pen... just spittballin'... lol