[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[gap]

Originally Posted by Josef von Posorschitz

Looking forward gap.

here it is: gap - armaments & equipments patch

This patch should:

• add 3 new types of shell to game: 11" AP, 11" HE and 11" AA; the new shells were given intermediate settings between their homologue of 8 and 14 inches of caliber;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 28 cm (11") SK C/34 guns mounted on Scharnhorst and Deutschland pocket battleships, that in stock game were set to use an "unknown" type of shell; the wrong shells are now replaced with the new 11" AP and HE shells;
  
  
• replace the 14" AP and HE shells so far fired by the 28 cm (11") SK L/40 guns (Deutschland class battleships), with more appropriate 11" shells;
  
  
• fix the issue with the 10.5 cm (4.1") SK C/33 gun, mounted on many German capital ships and cruisers, that was missing its muzzle flash effect.

The patch includes as well my 'undestructible searchlights fix'. Follow this link for further details:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197680

[V13dweller]

You can change the crew from "poor, novice, competent veteran to elite" all within the editor.

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

You can change the crew from "poor, novice, competent veteran to elite" all within the editor.

Yes, either method is okay

[V13dweller]

I hope this works, it will appear in Historical Missions as a mission with no name and the date will be the 1st of the 1st 1940.

Link;
https://rapidshare.com/files/8171507...t%20(3).misge;

I hope it works, also do not try and alter the outcome of the fight, because both the convoy's speeds are set to 15 knots, and I have not tried or tested what happens if you do so, because it is a test, there are no objectives or ways to finish.

Hope it works, if it does, enjoy the fight.

[V13dweller]

And also, good work on the getting the guns to work on our good friends, the pocket battleships

[Trevally.]

Here is another mission
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190978

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I hope this works, it will appear in Historical Missions as a mission with no name and the date will be the 1st of the 1st 1940.

Link;
https://rapidshare.com/files/8171507...t%20(3).misge;

I hope it works, also do not try and alter the outcome of the fight, because both the convoy's speeds are set to 15 knots, and I have not tried or tested what happens if you do so, because it is a test, there are no objectives or ways to finish.

Hope it works, if it does, enjoy the fight.

Thank you V13dweller, I'll have a look at it later today

Originally Posted by V13dweller

And also, good work on the getting the guns to work on our good friends, the pocket battleships

It is a test, like your mission. Try it and keep us informed on the outcomes, please

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Here is another mission
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190978

Good one, Trevally

[V13dweller]

I installed your mod, and it looks much better with the 105mm guns on the Germans ships having muzzle flash and the sound effects, but the Dido light cruiser's turrets do not have muzzle flash, and because the King George V ship shares that turret, they also do not have muzzle flash our a sound, seeing your good work on the German guns, I think you could make the Dido's guns work properly.

[V13dweller]

One note for my scenario, it is NOT complete, it has no objectives, no victory conditions, it is just a demonstration used for testing mods for the ships involved.

[gap]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I installed your mod, and it looks much better with the 105mm guns on the Germans ships having muzzle flash and the sound effects...

Good
what about the 28 cm guns? Are they firing now?

Originally Posted by V13dweller

but the Dido light cruiser's turrets do not have muzzle flash, and because the King George V ship shares that turret, they also do not have muzzle flash our a sound, seeing your good work on the German guns, I think you would make the Dido's guns work properly.

Yes, I suspected it

I've copied all the SH5 guns' stock settings into a spreadsheet, and I can see the (many ) mistakes made by devs, without need of actually playing the game. Nonetheless, you are providing me with valuable empiric evidences of what I can only guess being broken. Keep up you great testing work.

The first patch was sort of a proof of concept, since it was focused into fixing a variety of different bugs, rather than fixing all of them. The remaining bugs will be hopefully fixed with the next patch.

Talking about the 5.25" Mark I guns, fitted aboard Dido class cruisers and, as secondary armaments, on the King George V class battleships, their problem is very similar to the one that was affecting German 105 mm guns: they were assigned a... 5 inch AP shell as muzzle flash effect, instead of a reference to a proper fx (!)

Exactly the same happens with several other guns. This seem to me too a blatant and recurring anomaly for being considered a simple oversight, and I am still wondering if devs didn't make it on purpose (for what reason? ).

We will discover it with the next patch I will release!

Originally Posted by V13dweller

One note for my scenario, it is NOT complete, it has no objectives, no victory conditions, it is just a demonstration used for testing mods for the ships involved.

Don't worry about that. The most active forum members here are used to this kind of missions: they are used as tutorial missions and are often included in mods for testing purposes

[volodya61]

Happy New Year Gap!

Originally Posted by gap

The first patch was sort of a proof of concept, since it was focused into fixing a variety of different bugs, rather than fixing all of them. The remaining bugs will be hopefully fixed with the next patch.
....
We will discover it with the next patch I will release!

Hope you announce next patch because current patch (gap - armaments & equipments patch) I have just seen first time..
Previously used/tested your searchlights fix only..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Happy New Year Gap!

Best wishes for a prosperous 2013 to you to, mate

Originally Posted by volodya61

Hope you announce next patch because current patch (gap - armaments & equipments patch) I have just seen first time..
Previously used/tested your searchlights fix only..

At the current step I won't advertise very much my gun patches. They are just quick fixes that I need for testing what can be fixed with my limited knowledge. Nonetheless I highly appreciate and encourage any help, suggestion, testing, or criticism by the concerned ones. So stay tuned on this channel, please!

If there is enough interest, I will develop further my work and eventually release it as a full mod. See the first post of this thread for some details on my work plan

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

So stay tuned on this channel, please!

I'm always here
How can I help?

Originally Posted by gap

If there is enough interest, I will develop further my work and eventually release it as a full mod. See the first post of this thread for some details on my work plan

Looking forward!

[Rongel]

Please keep working on this Gap if you have time, sounds great!

I have too noticed that the ships attack strategy is sometimes a bit odd, they don't fire at the closest vessel, so one destroyer can charge in and cause a big damage to the enemy and be relatively safe. But I guess there is no way to edit the behaviour without exe modding?

I promised to help this project with the torpedo dud-values, but currently I'm in a big hurry, so there is not so much time, let's see what happens... Some work is already done. One of the biggest issues is now that duds seem to work with the GR2 ships, but never on imported .dat ships, before TDW's fixes it was the other way around.

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

I'm always here

Thank you sir, you support is much appreciated

Originally Posted by volodya61

How can I help?

In many ways. You can pick one of the points listed in the first post, or just choice a related aspect that I didn't think of initially (as Rongel did), and start developping it.

You don't need to be an "expert modder" (I for one am not): I think the hardest part is not actually editing files (this is easily done, and anyone with the needed time can learn doing it) but rather collecting reliable information, converting the raw information into game settings, balancing and matching the new settings so that they will interact realistically, testing the settings in game once we think we got a satisfactory result, adjusting them again if required, and so on.

The information I've collected so far is contained in this excel spreadsheet.
Its 'guns settings' worksheet contains an abstract of the main stock settings, compared (in each second row) with alternative and (I hope) more accurate settings that are deduced from the 'guns characteristics' worksheet. As you can see many spaces are left blank, as I miss information on many specs. You could help me finding the missing data, or at least extimating the most likely figures for filling the empty spaces, and you could as well apply the suggested settings, and test them in game.

Same goes for collecting multimedia resources, such as guns/shell sounds to be included in the mod, and pictures/real footage to get inspiration from, for making the mod not only realistic but also enjoyable to eyes and ears.

Last but not least, the cornerstone at the base of the above mentioned balancing process, is a better understanding of how the various settings are applied in game, and how they interact with each other.
Is gun's rate of fire affected by weather, fatigue, unit's ranking, etc? Is there a settings for increasing/decreasing aim accuracy independently for each gun? Is the same aim accuracy affected by crew ranking, wind, fog, time of the day, etc? to which range/impact angle is the armor penetration of each shell relative? Does it change (and if yes, how) when range / impact angle changes? This is a quick sample of the questions I wasn't able to find an answer to, so far

Answering at least some of them would greatly speed up the development of the mod, and make it better.

Anyone wanting to help me in unraveling those gordian knots is very welcome!

Originally Posted by Rongel

Please keep working on this Gap if you have time, sounds great!

Thank you mate, as you can see, I am trying to make disciples for the great cause

Originally Posted by Rongel

I have too noticed that the ships attack strategy is sometimes a bit odd, they don't fire at the closest vessel, so one destroyer can charge in and cause a big damage to the enemy and be relatively safe. But I guess there is no way to edit the behaviour without exe modding?

At least in part, those issue are possibly to be solved via AI scripting. In any case, the answer to your question is a 3 letters word:

TDW

Originally Posted by Rongel

I promised to help this project with the torpedo dud-values, but currently I'm in a big hurry, so there is not so much time, let's see what happens...

Real life takes the precedence. The SH5 community owes you a lot already. Just do what you can

Originally Posted by Rongel

Some work is already done. One of the biggest issues is now that duds seem to work with the GR2 ships, but never on imported .dat ships, before TDW's fixes it was the other way around.

Hopefully, one day not too far away, we will be able to port any SH3/4 imported unit to GR2 format without major headaches. Have you seen this thread