Battle of Midway, Round IV

jimmbbo · 04-23-20, 01:20 AM

I just returned to Midway for refit on a Honshu patrol and noticed the date was May 9, 1942.... With the Battle of Midway just around the corner, I thought I'd save it and transit to finish the Honshu mission and either return to Midway or reload the saved mission and make my fourth attempt to locate and engage either the CV attack fleet or the invasion fleet. Previous attempts have met mostly with failure to encounter the IJN fleets.

Does the game bring the IJN in on course and on time? Based on my attempts to date it has been more of a crap shoot...
TIA

propbeanie · 04-23-20, 08:06 AM

The only somewhat accurate rendering of the Midway battle is in RSRDC, where lurker_hlb3 went above and beyond with his research. It is still just an approximation, based upon starting points, mid points & and ending points that are known from history. He also did not have the amount of ship classes available to him, the way a mod like FotRSU now has.

Mios 4Me · 04-24-20, 08:50 PM

IME, the battle can start weeks +/- the actual dates. My first patrol ever encountered a fleet on 6/17/42, sending a Kongo and a Shokaku (yeah, I know) to the bottom. A later career had similar parameters.

jimmbbo · 04-25-20, 12:19 AM

SH4 dates and events seem to be cast in Silly Putty...

Rather than steaming aimlessly around the central Pacific, I think I'll shelve the Midway project unless it "just happens"...

Sniper297 · 04-25-20, 02:09 AM

Yeah, in career mode none of the historical battles work correctly in the stock game;

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=218749

I suspect you'll only be able to actually get into one is find a mod that recreated those battles from scratch.

Mios 4Me · 04-25-20, 12:21 PM

It doesn't work for BoM, but you can harvest the three coordinates for the BoPS, BoPP, and BOS from the Quick Patrols scenarios and use them in career mode. In the BOS, you can also use that data to backtrack and set an ambush in the San Bernardino Straits (SBS) if you're looking for fleet action in a confined space. Great fun.

No idea why it doesn't work for BoM.

propbeanie · 04-25-20, 03:06 PM

It all involves the scripted groups' line of "EvolveFromEntryDate=true" in the campaign, for the groups to start when they are supposed to. In the Single Mission files, you will see that the groups are much closer to the point of the battle, like the player's sub is, so those lines are usually set to "EvolveFromEntryDate=false", because if they were set to "true" in the Single Mission files, then the groups would be gone by the time the player gets there.

With Random Generated Groups (RGG) in the campaign, it just involves getting the "DelayMin=", "DelayMinInterv=" and "SpawnProbability=" (usually 1, 1, 100) lines correct, and in co-ordination with the "GameEntryDate=" and "GameEntryTime=" settings, along with "MaxInst=" (usually 1) and "MaxUnitsCreated=" (however big the group is) settings. This is where lurker excelled, in being able to make an RGG show when he wanted it to. It is also why the Mission Editor (ME) will ruin most of the settings lurker did, in that the ME has its own ideas of what is valid for those RGG settings, and even the regular scripted groups, which makes it frustrating to work with them...

KaleunMarco · 04-25-20, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

It all involves the scripted groups' line of "EvolveFromEntryDate=true" in the campaign, for the groups to start when they are supposed to. In the Single Mission files, you will see that the groups are much closer to the point of the battle, like the player's sub is, so those lines are usually set to "EvolveFromEntryDate=false", because if they were set to "true" in the Single Mission files, then the groups would be gone by the time the player gets there.

With Random Generated Groups (RGG) in the campaign, it just involves getting the "DelayMin=", "DelayMinInterv=" and "SpawnProbability=" (usually 1, 1, 100) lines correct, and in co-ordination with the "GameEntryDate=" and "GameEntryTime=" settings, along with "MaxInst=" (usually 1) and "MaxUnitsCreated=" (however big the group is) settings. This is where lurker excelled, in being able to make an RGG show when he wanted it to. It is also why the Mission Editor (ME) will ruin most of the settings lurker did, in that the ME has its own ideas of what is valid for those RGG settings, and even the regular scripted groups, which makes it frustrating to work with them...

as PB has explained above, re-creating a specific set of ships to appear at a specific date/time/location is nearly impossible given the design of SH4 and the dotMIS files. the Random Generated Groups have parameters (listed by PB) that are keyed to the start of a date within the MIS and not the start of the actual career/mission date range. a lot of moving parts to coordinate.

one thing you can try is to create an RGG within one of the existing dotMIS files that is enabled for the June 1942 time. (42a_Jap_TaskForce.mis?)
The key parms are GameEntryDate, DelayMin, AvailStartDate,Long,Lat.
Construct the RGG to start at the coordinates you want, on the date you want, sailing in the direction and speed you want such that it arrives in the general area of the Battle of Midway. try it with one or two ships in the RGG until you get the parms the way you want, then add more ships. it's a snap!

i tried it once a long time ago and could not make it work. i think i had too many parameters from the copied RGG and it was screwed up because of it. never went back to it.

anyway, good luck.

jimmbbo · 04-25-20, 05:59 PM

Thanks for the info, Kaleuns... reckon I'll just go about winning WWII as the opportunities presents themselves...

KaleunMarco · 04-25-20, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmbbo

Thanks for the info, Kaleuns... reckon I'll just go about winning WWII as the opportunities presents themselves...

as do many of us.....

Red Devil · 05-10-20, 05:31 PM

After loads of glitches I binned SH4 ans re-installed. Now, after returning from Honshu patrol in which I sank no less than 7 troops ships heading in and out, I arrived back at Midway on 3rd June 1942. Refitted and now heading out NW in the fingers crossed mode on meeting the 4 jap carriers head on!!

jimmbbo · 05-10-20, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Refitted and now heading out NW in the fingers crossed mode on meeting the 4 jap carriers head on!!

Good hunting! Take screenshots!

Red Devil · 05-10-20, 07:12 PM

I'll try, saved it for tomorrow

Red Devil · 05-11-20, 08:38 AM

ran same save twice, nothing at all, not even a jap plane. Only ship I saw was a US fleet at 182 312. Plenty of US aircraft. In reality I know where japs are but they are not there in sim. third attempt, went north, found Yorktown group; nothing else

edit: very strange. June 28, heading out from Pearl on patrol, 523nm SW of Midway, ran into 7 jap destroyers and a cruiser. Spread out all over the sea. Cruiser came within range, waited and sank him. Destroyers not really trying to find me, just circling out to NW and zig zagging coming in from direction of Midway.

04-23-20, 01:20 AM	#1
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Battle of Midway, Round IV I just returned to Midway for refit on a Honshu patrol and noticed the date was May 9, 1942.... With the Battle of Midway just around the corner, I thought I'd save it and transit to finish the Honshu mission and either return to Midway or reload the saved mission and make my fourth attempt to locate and engage either the CV attack fleet or the invasion fleet. Previous attempts have met mostly with failure to encounter the IJN fleets. Does the game bring the IJN in on course and on time? Based on my attempts to date it has been more of a crap shoot... TIA

04-23-20, 08:06 AM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	The only somewhat accurate rendering of the Midway battle is in RSRDC, where lurker_hlb3 went above and beyond with his research. It is still just an approximation, based upon starting points, mid points & and ending points that are known from history. He also did not have the amount of ship classes available to him, the way a mod like FotRSU now has. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

04-25-20, 03:06 PM	#7
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	It all involves the scripted groups' line of "EvolveFromEntryDate=true" in the campaign, for the groups to start when they are supposed to. In the Single Mission files, you will see that the groups are much closer to the point of the battle, like the player's sub is, so those lines are usually set to "EvolveFromEntryDate=false", because if they were set to "true" in the Single Mission files, then the groups would be gone by the time the player gets there. With Random Generated Groups (RGG) in the campaign, it just involves getting the "DelayMin=", "DelayMinInterv=" and "SpawnProbability=" (usually 1, 1, 100) lines correct, and in co-ordination with the "GameEntryDate=" and "GameEntryTime=" settings, along with "MaxInst=" (usually 1) and "MaxUnitsCreated=" (however big the group is) settings. This is where lurker excelled, in being able to make an RGG show when he wanted it to. It is also why the Mission Editor (ME) will ruin most of the settings lurker did, in that the ME has its own ideas of what is valid for those RGG settings, and even the regular scripted groups, which makes it frustrating to work with them... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

05-10-20, 05:31 PM	#11
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,515 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	After loads of glitches I binned SH4 ans re-installed. Now, after returning from Honshu patrol in which I sank no less than 7 troops ships heading in and out, I arrived back at Midway on 3rd June 1942. Refitted and now heading out NW in the fingers crossed mode on meeting the 4 jap carriers head on!! __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

05-10-20, 07:12 PM	#13
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,515 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	I'll try, saved it for tomorrow __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

04-24-20, 08:50 PM	#3
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	IME, the battle can start weeks +/- the actual dates. My first patrol ever encountered a fleet on 6/17/42, sending a Kongo and a Shokaku (yeah, I know) to the bottom. A later career had similar parameters.

04-25-20, 12:19 AM	#4
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	SH4 dates and events seem to be cast in Silly Putty... Rather than steaming aimlessly around the central Pacific, I think I'll shelve the Midway project unless it "just happens"...

04-25-20, 02:09 AM	#5
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Yeah, in career mode none of the historical battles work correctly in the stock game; https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=218749 I suspect you'll only be able to actually get into one is find a mod that recreated those battles from scratch.

04-25-20, 12:21 PM	#6
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	It doesn't work for BoM, but you can harvest the three coordinates for the BoPS, BoPP, and BOS from the Quick Patrols scenarios and use them in career mode. In the BOS, you can also use that data to backtrack and set an ambush in the San Bernardino Straits (SBS) if you're looking for fleet action in a confined space. Great fun. No idea why it doesn't work for BoM.

04-25-20, 05:59 PM	#9
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the info, Kaleuns... reckon I'll just go about winning WWII as the opportunities presents themselves...

05-11-20, 08:38 AM	#14
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,515 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	ran same save twice, nothing at all, not even a jap plane. Only ship I saw was a US fleet at 182 312. Plenty of US aircraft. In reality I know where japs are but they are not there in sim. third attempt, went north, found Yorktown group; nothing else edit: very strange. June 28, heading out from Pearl on patrol, 523nm SW of Midway, ran into 7 jap destroyers and a cruiser. Spread out all over the sea. Cruiser came within range, waited and sank him. Destroyers not really trying to find me, just circling out to NW and zig zagging coming in from direction of Midway. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk Last edited by Red Devil; 05-12-20 at 07:11 AM.