Gunnery questions

Mios 4Me · 08-08-20, 10:51 AM

- What is the maximum range of shore batteries? I'd used 10 km as a safe point for months, then was hit from outside that range. Obviously fortresses like Singapore and the entrance to Tokyo Bay are going to have the longest-ranged weapons; is there a rule of thumb for them and the less well-defended installations?

- Ditto for merchants' guns: 2.5 km was my old limit; now it's 3.0 km, but I'm not entirely sure that's universally applicable.

- Is there no way for the watch to issue SHELLREPs at the first sign of incoming?

- Is there a way to have the crew use the 5" gun for AA defense?

- If not, is there a way to switch the AA shells for AP/HE rounds?

- What's the point of AP shells on a sub anyway? Merchants and escorts at DD level and below aren't armored, and, even if a sub were suicidal enough to try, CLs and above were armored against the size of their own guns, IIRC, meaning they're invulnerable to even 5" fire. Even against heavily constructed but lightly armed ships like the AVs (Nisshin, IIRC), the AP shells were insufficient. I typically use AP against engine rooms and to create ruptures in tankers for the HE shells to ignite, even though I have no idea if the game models such actions.

mikesn9 · 08-08-20, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

- What is the maximum range of shore batteries? I'd used 10 km as a safe point for months, then was hit from outside that range. Obviously fortresses like Singapore and the entrance to Tokyo Bay are going to have the longest-ranged weapons; is there a rule of thumb for them and the less well-defended installations?

- Ditto for merchants' guns: 2.5 km was my old limit; now it's 3.0 km, but I'm not entirely sure that's universally applicable.

- Is there no way for the watch to issue SHELLREPs at the first sign of incoming?

- Is there a way to have the crew use the 5" gun for AA defense?

- If not, is there a way to switch the AA shells for AP/HE rounds?

- What's the point of AP shells on a sub anyway? Merchants and escorts at DD level and below aren't armored, and, even if a sub were suicidal enough to try, CLs and above were armored against the size of their own guns, IIRC, meaning they're invulnerable to even 5" fire. Even against heavily constructed but lightly armed ships like the AVs (Nisshin, IIRC), the AP shells were insufficient. I typically use AP against engine rooms and to create ruptures in tankers for the HE shells to ignite, even though I have no idea if the game models such actions.

I use the AP shells first to 'soften up' then go to HE till it goes up in smoke.

Armistead · 08-08-20, 02:34 PM

The ranges depend on the mod, each has a set fixed max limit so to speak then numerous other factors come into play, weather, night, sub speed, angle, sensors, visuals, etc.

KaleunMarco · 08-08-20, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

- What is the maximum range of shore batteries? I'd used 10 km as a safe point for months, then was hit from outside that range. Obviously fortresses like Singapore and the entrance to Tokyo Bay are going to have the longest-ranged weapons; is there a rule of thumb for them and the less well-defended installations?

rule of thumb: 6 miles/ 10 km. if you are playing a special mod, the modder may have increased the detection capability of the enemy. in that case, you may need to open the distance to 7 or 8 miles (11-13 km).

Quote:

- Ditto for merchants' guns: 2.5 km was my old limit; now it's 3.0 km, but I'm not entirely sure that's universally applicable.

absolute minimum rule-of-thumb: 6,000 yds/m. this value is stored in one of the CFG files. and may be adjusted.

Quote:

- Is there no way for the watch to issue SHELLREPs at the first sign of incoming?

not that i am aware of. many kaleuns have asked about adding various reports based on their experiences but no one has figured out how to hack into the SH4 code for that sort of thing.

Quote:

- Is there a way to have the crew use the 5" gun for AA defense?

do you mean for you to shoot at planes? yes, but you will need to adjust the maximum elevation for the deck gun. most times they are limited to 40 degrees.
if you mean for the crew to shoot at planes with the deck gun like they do for ships, ....probably not. i ,personally, have never been able to do that but someone else MAY have. you would have to define the deck gun as an AA-gun, i suspect. let's put it this way, there is no quick and easy way to do this.

Quote:

- If not, is there a way to switch the AA shells for AP/HE rounds?

no, but you can adjust the lethality of the AA shells. there are many mods that adjust those qualities.

Quote:

- What's the point of AP shells on a sub anyway? Merchants and escorts at DD level and below aren't armored, and, even if a sub were suicidal enough to try, CLs and above were armored against the size of their own guns, IIRC, meaning they're invulnerable to even 5" fire. Even against heavily constructed but lightly armed ships like the AVs (Nisshin, IIRC), the AP shells were insufficient. I typically use AP against engine rooms and to create ruptures in tankers for the HE shells to ignite, even though I have no idea if the game models such actions.

i suspect that there are AP shells and HE shells to give the user a difference. AP shells will have higher penetrative definitions and HE would have more explosive definitions. here again, there are many mods that you can use to beef up either of these shell types such that you can use them interchangeably.

Mios 4Me · 08-08-20, 05:53 PM

rule of thumb: 6 miles/ 10 km. if you are playing a special mod, the modder may have increased the detection capability of the enemy. in that case, you may need to open the distance to 7 or 8 miles (11-13 km).
Great, I wasn't far off with 12 km. I'm using FotRSUE, btw.

absolute minimum rule-of-thumb: 6,000 yds/m. this value is stored in one of the CFG files. and may be adjusted.
The mod must have been adjusted or something's off: my tactical doctrine against large tanker-type ships is to soften them up with a Mk 16 or two, then engage with the 5" from 3000 meters plus. Earlier today, I engaged a LEO, IIRC, in the northern central Inland Sea in that manner but hadn't accounted sufficiently for momentum when stopping the engines. We drifted within 3000 m and began taking fire around 2940 m, which lasted until we could back up past 3 km again.

do you mean for you to shoot at planes? yes, but you will need to adjust the maximum elevation for the deck gun. most times they are limited to 40 degrees.
if you mean for the crew to shoot at planes with the deck gun like they do for ships, ....probably not. i ,personally, have never been able to do that but someone else MAY have. you would have to define the deck gun as an AA-gun, i suspect. let's put it this way, there is no quick and easy way to do this.
Pity. Yes, I wanted the crew to engage as I'm not proficient enough underway to engage aircraft.

no, but you can adjust the lethality of the AA shells. there are many mods that adjust those qualities.
Do you recall the distance at which they begin to burst? They're effective enough in the anti-surface role below that range, but I can't recall what it was.

i suspect that there are AP shells and HE shells to give the user a difference. AP shells will have higher penetrative definitions and HE would have more explosive definitions. here again, there are many mods that you can use to beef up either of these shell types such that you can use them interchangeably.
Was that a historical loadout? One thing that comes to mind from Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors was how the Japanese AP shells simply went through the hulls of the DD/CVE targets without exploding unless they contacted fairly substantial machinery. If this effect were already known by the USN, I wonder what targets they would have had in mind for the AP inventory. Or were there thick-skinned merchantmen that I'm unaware of?

Col7777 · 08-09-20, 01:34 AM

Talking of Shore Batteries, do they fire at aircraft?

I mentioned in another thread of firing back at SB's to disable them but it is said they are like scenery and can't be damaged.
Then one guy hid a ship inside one somehow to make them a target, I've seen many harbour attacks where shells hit buildings but all they do is make a flash and a bang, shame really would be good to see some dock yards in flames and smoke.

As most of you know during the war it was common for the big ships to fire on land prior to a landing party, would be great to see the cruisers and BB's shelling the land and seeing billows of smoke.

Col.

KaleunMarco · 08-09-20, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Col7777

Talking of Shore Batteries, do they fire at aircraft?
Col.

if the shore batteries are AA guns, yes, they will fire at aircraft.
medium and large batteries, i believe will only fire at seacraft.
it's the AI, don't tell at me.

08-08-20, 10:51 AM	#1
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Gunnery questions - What is the maximum range of shore batteries? I'd used 10 km as a safe point for months, then was hit from outside that range. Obviously fortresses like Singapore and the entrance to Tokyo Bay are going to have the longest-ranged weapons; is there a rule of thumb for them and the less well-defended installations? - Ditto for merchants' guns: 2.5 km was my old limit; now it's 3.0 km, but I'm not entirely sure that's universally applicable. - Is there no way for the watch to issue SHELLREPs at the first sign of incoming? - Is there a way to have the crew use the 5" gun for AA defense? - If not, is there a way to switch the AA shells for AP/HE rounds? - What's the point of AP shells on a sub anyway? Merchants and escorts at DD level and below aren't armored, and, even if a sub were suicidal enough to try, CLs and above were armored against the size of their own guns, IIRC, meaning they're invulnerable to even 5" fire. Even against heavily constructed but lightly armed ships like the AVs (Nisshin, IIRC), the AP shells were insufficient. I typically use AP against engine rooms and to create ruptures in tankers for the HE shells to ignite, even though I have no idea if the game models such actions.

08-08-20, 02:34 PM	#3
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	The ranges depend on the mod, each has a set fixed max limit so to speak then numerous other factors come into play, weather, night, sub speed, angle, sensors, visuals, etc. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

08-09-20, 01:34 AM	#6
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	Talking of Shore Batteries, do they fire at aircraft? I mentioned in another thread of firing back at SB's to disable them but it is said they are like scenery and can't be damaged. Then one guy hid a ship inside one somehow to make them a target, I've seen many harbour attacks where shells hit buildings but all they do is make a flash and a bang, shame really would be good to see some dock yards in flames and smoke. As most of you know during the war it was common for the big ships to fire on land prior to a landing party, would be great to see the cruisers and BB's shelling the land and seeing billows of smoke. Col. __________________ Silent and Violent

08-08-20, 05:53 PM	#5
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	rule of thumb: 6 miles/ 10 km. if you are playing a special mod, the modder may have increased the detection capability of the enemy. in that case, you may need to open the distance to 7 or 8 miles (11-13 km). Great, I wasn't far off with 12 km. I'm using FotRSUE, btw. absolute minimum rule-of-thumb: 6,000 yds/m. this value is stored in one of the CFG files. and may be adjusted. The mod must have been adjusted or something's off: my tactical doctrine against large tanker-type ships is to soften them up with a Mk 16 or two, then engage with the 5" from 3000 meters plus. Earlier today, I engaged a LEO, IIRC, in the northern central Inland Sea in that manner but hadn't accounted sufficiently for momentum when stopping the engines. We drifted within 3000 m and began taking fire around 2940 m, which lasted until we could back up past 3 km again. do you mean for you to shoot at planes? yes, but you will need to adjust the maximum elevation for the deck gun. most times they are limited to 40 degrees. if you mean for the crew to shoot at planes with the deck gun like they do for ships, ....probably not. i ,personally, have never been able to do that but someone else MAY have. you would have to define the deck gun as an AA-gun, i suspect. let's put it this way, there is no quick and easy way to do this. Pity. Yes, I wanted the crew to engage as I'm not proficient enough underway to engage aircraft. no, but you can adjust the lethality of the AA shells. there are many mods that adjust those qualities. Do you recall the distance at which they begin to burst? They're effective enough in the anti-surface role below that range, but I can't recall what it was. i suspect that there are AP shells and HE shells to give the user a difference. AP shells will have higher penetrative definitions and HE would have more explosive definitions. here again, there are many mods that you can use to beef up either of these shell types such that you can use them interchangeably. Was that a historical loadout? One thing that comes to mind from Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors was how the Japanese AP shells simply went through the hulls of the DD/CVE targets without exploding unless they contacted fairly substantial machinery. If this effect were already known by the USN, I wonder what targets they would have had in mind for the AP inventory. Or were there thick-skinned merchantmen that I'm unaware of?