Historical / Operational questions about long trips.

DuncanS · 12-23-19, 05:03 PM

Just started playing SH4, and am doing the US career mode. Just for authenticity sake I have a couple questions.

My first mission involves first sailing from Pearl Harbor to the Japanese coast.

In plotting the course, I decided it made sense to hit Midway first, since it was more or less on the way and the sub could refuel and what not. Just curious if that was likely or if in reality they would just sail straight across?

Also would a sub make most of the trip running on the surface only submerging when danger or targets were more likely?

And finally, on a long trip like this would you run at Full speed mostly, or Flank?

Sorry if the questions are sort of inane. These are the kinds of things that keep me up at night :P

Thanks!

propbeanie · 12-23-19, 08:19 PM

The game does OK in most situations. Midway was not a submarine base until after the Battle of Midway. However, it was a fueling location for any type of vehicle that it had fuel for, and the subs did stop by on their way out, and usually on their way back. Most of the time, they would run at Ahead Standard, which was close to a "best efficient" speed. You did not want to be wasting Uncle Sams fuel reserves, especially if you were going thousands of miles from the nearest fueling location. Ahead Full and Flank were used (usually) only to attempt to close a target. The stock game does fine at all of that. It's only problem is giving you "Hollywood" or suicide missions, such as photographing ships near Nagasaki, or similar.

The "traveling" aspect for the US submariners was somewhat restrictive. Initially, they were basically ordered to be submerged during daylight hours, and when within 500nm of any Japanese air facility. But when they came back from patrol, were criticized for having been submerged too much. Also, their pre-war training taught them to not be seen by any one at any time, and that sonar targeting was the way to shoot their torpedoes... Add to that, the fact that the magnetic pistol used on the torpedoes was faulty, and pre-mature detonated quite often, and you had a recipe for reports of lots of sinkings, but not actual "witness" to same. What would happen, is they would "target" a ship via sonar, shoot their torpedo, which would then premature detonate, and the skipper would naturally think he had a "hit"... Anyway, there is much more to the story. The best book that I have used thus far has been the old reliable "Silent Victory" (that is a SubSim related link) - not that you have to buy that book, much less buy it from Amazon or through SubSim, but that is the best title I have found, if you are wanting some background on the "who, what, when, where, why and how" of the story. Have fun with it! When you get into modding, I do recommend Fall of the Rising Sun, but for now, do Stock and get used to the game. For a first mega mod, especially if you like the Stock game is to use THEBERBSTER's THEBERBSTEES All In One Beginners Mega Mod List For SH4, which is a re-working of Webster's Game Fixes Only. Highly recommended stuff. Of course, I could bombard you with about another dozen mod recommendations, but I'll leave ye be for now...

You'll have to forgive my manners - I almost forgot: "Welcome to SubSim!"

Aktungbby · 12-23-19, 09:09 PM

DuncanS!

KaleunMarco · 12-24-19, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncanS

Just started playing SH4, and am doing the US career mode. Just for authenticity sake I have a couple questions.

My first mission involves first sailing from Pearl Harbor to the Japanese coast.

In plotting the course, I decided it made sense to hit Midway first, since it was more or less on the way and the sub could refuel and what not. Just curious if that was likely or if in reality they would just sail straight across?

Also would a sub make most of the trip running on the surface only submerging when danger or targets were more likely?

And finally, on a long trip like this would you run at Full speed mostly, or Flank?

Sorry if the questions are sort of inane. These are the kinds of things that keep me up at night :P

Thanks!

welcome to subsim.

answers in order of your asking:
1. if you are playing with limited fuel then stop at Midway and fuel-up...both ways.
2. yes, run on the surface as often as you can.
3. when traveling between destinations (home port-to-patrol-area) it is best to use Standard Speed. this maximizes your fuel consumption and your battery recharge capacity. Higher speeds are meant for tactical situations such as when you have to make an end-run to get into attack position in front of a convoy or escape situations when you have to get out of the immediate area di-di.

have fun. good luck and good hunting.

DuncanS · 12-24-19, 11:47 AM

Hey thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the informative answers propbeanie and KaleunMarco.

I'm playing realistic, so fuel is definitely an issue.

propbeanie,
I did actually install "THEBERBSTEES All In One Beginners Mega Mod" after playing through the sub school missions and really like updates it makes.

I'm currently reading "Sink Em' All" by Charles Lockwood. Not sure if you are familiar with that one. The fist chapter did talk about the torpedo issues you mentioned. Interesting stuff. I'll check out your suggestion next.

Thanks again all!

propbeanie · 12-24-19, 12:15 PM

Oh, Lockwood's book is good, he is the "source", but definitely not a "writer" of the Blair calibre. Plus the fact that Blair's book is at least 4 times the size of Lockwood's... I bought a Kindle set of Lockwood books with "Sink 'Em All" in it, of which I found the lifeguarding one "Zoomies, Subs and Zeroes" his most interesting. "Down to the Sea in Subs" is good reading also.

jimmbbo · 12-24-19, 05:12 PM

Welcome aboard, skipper!

Despite its age, SH4 is still a great game, and the tech savvy kaleuns of the community have frequently breathed additional life into it.

As mentioned in the posts above, the Midway stop out and back is just about mandatory for any mission out of Pearl to the Japanese home islands.

Unfortunately if you run out of diesel oil, it's game over... You cannot call for a tow into port or to replenish underway (UNREP)... Really frustrating to run out of fuel 10 miles from a refit base... or so a friend tells me

Accordingly, when the fuel level drops to about 60%, monitoring fuel remaining against distance to Midway is a skill worth developing.

Later in the war (or with some mods) more refit locations become available, allowing much longer and more productive patrols.

Early in the war, the boats in the Asiatic fleet are extremely limited in speed, range and refit sites, and with their reduced torpedo loads, they are more a more demanding assignment. Also, as the Japanese took over the Philippines and Java, they became unusable as refit sites/home ports, with the only warnings being a radio message and the slanted Home Port anchor moving to a safer location.

Good hunting!

12-23-19, 05:03 PM	#1
DuncanS Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 5 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Historical / Operational questions about long trips. Just started playing SH4, and am doing the US career mode. Just for authenticity sake I have a couple questions. My first mission involves first sailing from Pearl Harbor to the Japanese coast. In plotting the course, I decided it made sense to hit Midway first, since it was more or less on the way and the sub could refuel and what not. Just curious if that was likely or if in reality they would just sail straight across? Also would a sub make most of the trip running on the surface only submerging when danger or targets were more likely? And finally, on a long trip like this would you run at Full speed mostly, or Flank? Sorry if the questions are sort of inane. These are the kinds of things that keep me up at night :P Thanks!

12-23-19, 08:19 PM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,738 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	The game does OK in most situations. Midway was not a submarine base until after the Battle of Midway. However, it was a fueling location for any type of vehicle that it had fuel for, and the subs did stop by on their way out, and usually on their way back. Most of the time, they would run at Ahead Standard, which was close to a "best efficient" speed. You did not want to be wasting Uncle Sams fuel reserves, especially if you were going thousands of miles from the nearest fueling location. Ahead Full and Flank were used (usually) only to attempt to close a target. The stock game does fine at all of that. It's only problem is giving you "Hollywood" or suicide missions, such as photographing ships near Nagasaki, or similar. The "traveling" aspect for the US submariners was somewhat restrictive. Initially, they were basically ordered to be submerged during daylight hours, and when within 500nm of any Japanese air facility. But when they came back from patrol, were criticized for having been submerged too much. Also, their pre-war training taught them to not be seen by any one at any time, and that sonar targeting was the way to shoot their torpedoes... Add to that, the fact that the magnetic pistol used on the torpedoes was faulty, and pre-mature detonated quite often, and you had a recipe for reports of lots of sinkings, but not actual "witness" to same. What would happen, is they would "target" a ship via sonar, shoot their torpedo, which would then premature detonate, and the skipper would naturally think he had a "hit"... Anyway, there is much more to the story. The best book that I have used thus far has been the old reliable "Silent Victory" (that is a SubSim related link) - not that you have to buy that book, much less buy it from Amazon or through SubSim, but that is the best title I have found, if you are wanting some background on the "who, what, when, where, why and how" of the story. Have fun with it! When you get into modding, I do recommend Fall of the Rising Sun, but for now, do Stock and get used to the game. For a first mega mod, especially if you like the Stock game is to use THEBERBSTER's THEBERBSTEES All In One Beginners Mega Mod List For SH4, which is a re-working of Webster's Game Fixes Only. Highly recommended stuff. Of course, I could bombard you with about another dozen mod recommendations, but I'll leave ye be for now... You'll have to forgive my manners - I almost forgot: "Welcome to SubSim!" __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-23-19, 09:09 PM	#3
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,837 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! DuncanS! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

12-24-19, 12:15 PM	#6
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,738 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Oh, Lockwood's book is good, he is the "source", but definitely not a "writer" of the Blair calibre. Plus the fact that Blair's book is at least 4 times the size of Lockwood's... I bought a Kindle set of Lockwood books with "Sink 'Em All" in it, of which I found the lifeguarding one "Zoomies, Subs and Zeroes" his most interesting. "Down to the Sea in Subs" is good reading also. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-24-19, 11:47 AM	#5
DuncanS Swabbie Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 5 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Hey thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the informative answers propbeanie and KaleunMarco. I'm playing realistic, so fuel is definitely an issue. propbeanie, I did actually install "THEBERBSTEES All In One Beginners Mega Mod" after playing through the sub school missions and really like updates it makes. I'm currently reading "Sink Em' All" by Charles Lockwood. Not sure if you are familiar with that one. The fist chapter did talk about the torpedo issues you mentioned. Interesting stuff. I'll check out your suggestion next. Thanks again all!

12-24-19, 05:12 PM	#7
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard, skipper! Despite its age, SH4 is still a great game, and the tech savvy kaleuns of the community have frequently breathed additional life into it. As mentioned in the posts above, the Midway stop out and back is just about mandatory for any mission out of Pearl to the Japanese home islands. Unfortunately if you run out of diesel oil, it's game over... You cannot call for a tow into port or to replenish underway (UNREP)... Really frustrating to run out of fuel 10 miles from a refit base... or so a friend tells me Accordingly, when the fuel level drops to about 60%, monitoring fuel remaining against distance to Midway is a skill worth developing. Later in the war (or with some mods) more refit locations become available, allowing much longer and more productive patrols. Early in the war, the boats in the Asiatic fleet are extremely limited in speed, range and refit sites, and with their reduced torpedo loads, they are more a more demanding assignment. Also, as the Japanese took over the Philippines and Java, they became unusable as refit sites/home ports, with the only warnings being a radio message and the slanted Home Port anchor moving to a safer location. Good hunting!