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Old 04-09-10, 12:20 AM   #16
frinik
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Default Education vs Fun

Stiglr

It all depends of what you are looking for in a game or in life in general. Some like the experiencing and othersd ar focussed on results. I guess it's an example of people being divided between Type A; competitive, aggressive, result oriented and Type B more placid. contemplative, interested in the discovery more than in the accomplishments and then you have the AB type( I am one) a mixture of the 2;competitive and goal oriented at times but also interested in discovering and experiencing different things.

As much as I like the Panzer IVF2 and do not disdain the Panzer III J and L, I 'd rather fight in a Panther because it has the right balance that the lighter( weak armour) and heavier tanks(lack of mobility) do not have either.

Nevertheless, The Ueber Panzers have also their downside often mechanically more prone to breakdowns, slower, more visible targets.

Thhis is why I like Steel Fury because with all the mods now you can experience a variety of tanks from the Skdf 232, 451 , the Panzer Jaeger I,to the Panzer II C ,various versions of the the Panzer III, the Pz IVF1,F2, the Stug III C, D and G, the Hetzer and then the biggies Tiger I and II and the Panther with more models to come the Brumbaer, the Wespe, the Elefant etc and on the Soviet side the BT5 and 10, the T38, T26, T60, the Mark II(Mathilda) and III, the T34/76 , T34/85, The Js2, KV1 and 2 with the ISU 152, KV84 and the SU 76, 85 and 100 coming.

Panzer Elite , although showing its age, allows to play even more variety of tanks including UK ,US , Italian and French tanks.

Re IL2 I beg to disagree with you.You can survive with a Bf 109 and a Spitfire even against latest models.Some early war models remained competitive( with upgrade admittedly) till the end of the war.

I think you also being a tad judgemental and paternalistic when you ascribe ignorance to players who want to move on to more advanced or sophisticated models whether armour or aircrafts.Just because you don't like it and won't do it yourself does not mean that others who do it are ignorant or don't know better. We buy and play games because we want to have fun or be entertained after all.It the games are going to be tailored to be educative and force players to adhere to strict principles that purists want them to follow then where's the pleasure?Not everybody wants to be educated by a game. If I want to be educated I play Scrabble or Strategy games.

Same with sports you can play it for the fun of it not sticking by strict rules or if you like you can play it by formal rules if it what you want.But you cannot force or judge people just because they don't fit your own personal code of conduct.I think you need to be a bit more flexible and let others be different in their approach.

End of lecture.

Cheers
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Old 05-01-10, 01:42 PM   #17
hugostv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiglr View Post
Re IL2 I beg to disagree with you.You can survive with a Bf 109 and a Spitfire even against latest models.Some early war models remained competitive( with upgrade admittedly) till the end of the war.
I think that's exactly what Stiglr was trying to say right from the beginning.
I've played Warbirds and Aces High before moving to tanks. What they used to do on those servers back in those days is limit plane choice to certain plane era (ie spit1 vs 109e), on a russian freehost server, which is still in operation i think, they took a step further and made more planes of the same era available, so you'd get russian almost useless biplanes battling or trying to survive against 109e's. And for sure I found that those earlier models took a lot more skill and were actually more fun to play than the later '1 shot wonder' models. But I know it's all down to personal taste and I won't dispute that.
What I'm trying to say is that I totally understand what Stiglr is saying. Most people fly Spitfires because they offer the best average of firepower, maneuverability, speed, and forgiving physics. Personally, I would choose the hardest plane to fly and adapt my own style of flying. And that would take me to a different level of gameplay. Instead of just trying to outmaneuver and just turn'n'burn mindlessly, I'd have to stick to tactics which require far more discipline and patience. And it really paid off. Most people would just stick to relying on maneuverability and pure luck after burning all the energy, but you can almost guarantee yourself a perfect sortie if you'd stick to certain rules flying a less maneuverable plane. It just forces you to become better.
In Red Orchestra, there are certain maps you can play against limited amount of Tigers vs early T34s, which guns just wont penetrate that thick Tiger armor. So you'd have to drive so close to the Tiger trying to outmaneuver it in order to get behind Tiger's rear and make a quick shot hoping to hit it in the weak spot. And it's just such a rush you get when you can make a Tiger look so humiliated while desperately trying to shake T34s off its tail with its smaller rate of turn. And I think that's what Stiglr is trying to say: I don't think you really need to restructure everything, but it's certainly nice to give a limited choice for players in order to force them explore these options instead of going with angled IS2 vs Tigers at a long distance and shoot each other endlessly, at least that's what happens in RO.
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Old 05-01-10, 05:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiglr View Post
I suppose my answer would be, "Doesn't anyone relish a challenge?"
Hi guyz
I was a Armoured Corps Soldier for 16 years and was trained on the first computer gunnery aids as well live firing. For Squadron Gunnery Competition, we would fire HESH Prac [no explosive, just a great big bullet] at a 9volt battery with a globe on it, at night with no night vision aids, at 4,500 mts Yes thats a long way, with no aids, with what we called "steam gunnery" and yes we hit it.
Why do I tell you this ? simple I love a tank sim that makes me feel like I'm there, and before TvsT , I found games like Panzer Elite to be kids games ! amusing but that's it !
Having said that, I'm not sure why Panzer Front & Panzer Front Ausf.B gets such a bagging here, maybe because it's on Sony and not PC.
Ballistics, Gunnery and everything else is modeled into the game.
1st mission on PF AusfB is the 1st attack on France in Pz.IIc and if you don't look after your resup/repair veh your just not going to make it, after that your off to Africa with the first battles until 1941. Now this is an excellent game for those who like a challenge with realism. Turn it up the volume through your stereo and I defy anyone not to jump when you are immersed in the game and a round hits you ! Sure is hard to complete your missions in the early model tanks and once you have you can play them buy choosing tanks/anti tank guns/artillery and making it into a whole new game. The only modern tanks in this game, besides all the early models are M4 Sherman, Grant, Stuart, T34 1941, Pz.IV,F2 & Tiger E.
Panzer Front first came out on Sony 1 and the tank choices in it are immense,and for Stiglr, the PF 1on Sony 1, there is "Barkmans Corner" in Panther, you can also choose Panther A & D, I have these games and still play and love them, I bought them and have absolutely no trouble with them and text is all in English, or you can change it to German and some others which I often do just for fun. I also have Panzer Elite Gold and nearly every other so called tank sim for those who think I am bias.
This is just my opinion
The following thread does not do this game justice
PANZERFRONT (Anyone Here Remember This One?)
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Old 05-02-10, 12:17 AM   #19
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Default Panzer front

Knightscross if you check the thread dedicated to Panzer front you´ll see that it does not get bagged on the contrary a lot of people loved it and still play it.I only have experience with Panzerfront Bis ausf. B which is in Japanese and with 7 missions to play.I found it ok but no more.Graphically nice but the ballistics and realism not so gtrreat but as I said it came out only in Japan and a friend game me the game so perhaps my experience is not the best.Panzer front I would have loved to have but it does not exist either on pc or ps2.

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Old 05-02-10, 07:35 AM   #20
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As I said just my opinion
Both my Panzer Front & Panzer Front Ausf.B were released and bought in Australia, at an EB Games store, all in English, no Japanese to be seen in the manuals or on the cd's
All the Best
Darren
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Old 05-06-10, 08:32 AM   #21
Akula
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Wow, some interesing feedback here.

I did see some time back at the Lighthouse Interactive forums that someone did a Panther mod.... But those seem to be long gone and missing....

Oh, how I would love a remake of Panzer Elite!
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Old 05-06-10, 09:35 AM   #22
frinik
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Default sf

There´s indeed a Panther mod but it has been withdrawn from circulation because it was copied from RO and the creators had issues with using it for another sim.I have it but it´s limited to 2 missions and the Panther model while nice is dreadfully slow and the missions uninspiring.I am waiting for the release of Steel Panzer mod for Steel Fury which will incorporate the Panther, Tiger II, Elefant, Su 76, 85, 100, ISU 152 all the ueberpanzern as somebody would say.

That being said Panzer Elite is aliev and well and with tons of mods and new vehicles and missions check it out on theit forum.It´s dated graphic -wise but sitll very playable and the modders have been good at rejuvenating it.
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Old 05-07-10, 10:41 AM   #23
Akula
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Hi Frinik

Indeed Panzer Elite is still live and well and a total classic.

Any idea when the release date is for the Steel Panzer mod with all those German heavies in it? I can see that 1.4 is already out.

Thanks again,
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Old 05-07-10, 10:47 AM   #24
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Default Steel Panzer 1.5

Hi Gian, from what I gathered from Hemul ,one of its creators, on the sukhoi.org.ru it´s coming in 2 weeks to a month maximum.The post was 4 days ago so it´s just a matter of time.

SP 1.4 came out almost a year ago.

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Old 05-07-10, 10:51 AM   #25
frinik
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Default sp 1.5

Gian here´s the quote dated 04 May
: Steel Panzer Mod - swing, play, discuss
Work in Progress, configure new equipment, maps and so on. Tentative timing out, a couple of weeks to a month from this day.




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Old 05-08-10, 04:52 AM   #26
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i44 for armed assault has a panther in it, as does the Normandy mod for Arma2. i44 is also releasing their mod for Arma2.
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Old 05-12-10, 01:17 PM   #27
KnightsCross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinik View Post
There´s indeed a Panther mod but it has been withdrawn from circulation because it was copied from RO and the creators had issues with using it for another sim.I have it but it´s limited to 2 missions and the Panther model while nice is dreadfully slow and the missions uninspiring.I am waiting for the release of Steel Panzer mod for Steel Fury which will incorporate the Panther, Tiger II, Elefant, Su 76, 85, 100, ISU 152 all the ueberpanzern as somebody would say.

That being said Panzer Elite is aliev and well and with tons of mods and new vehicles and missions check it out on theit forum.It´s dated graphic -wise but sitll very playable and the modders have been good at rejuvenating it.
Frinik I'm looking forward to trying the Elefant/ Ferdinand
10 days to go
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Old 05-12-10, 11:23 PM   #28
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Default Elefant/Ferdinand

KC the Ferdinand/Elefant have not yet been released.They 'll come with the new Steel Panzer mod hopefully by the end of May.
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Old 05-13-10, 05:01 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinik View Post
KC the Ferdinand/Elefant have not yet been released.They 'll come with the new Steel Panzer mod hopefully by the end of May.
At the speed my pc works, that means I should have it about July
My friends say, I'm slow but worth waiting for, so I match my pc
Oh well it's all up from here

Darren
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Old 05-14-10, 10:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiglr View Post
I don't so much mind the Tigers and Panthers being available as part of the overall experience... I'm just making a point about the "gottawin" mentality that drives players to immediately gravitate to the uebers, and stunting their own development and learning (not to mention, gaining more of an appreciation for why it was nice to drive a Tiger after surviving in a III or a IV for a long time).
I think you need a game with some longer span campaigns for that. I loved Panzer Elite campaigns where you had limited tanks and ammo (especially those rare tungsten rounds) and you really felt the difference coming from the PzIII/IV with the 50 mm or the short 75mm cannon and PzIVF2/G with the longer one. And when you sometimes get one or two Tiger Is, it felt like Christmas came early

I don't know why something like this couldn't have been implemented into the SF or TvT - repairing tanks, keeping track of the ammo of your tank company and hoping for some reinforcements was half the immersion factor that kept you going through the campaign missions. Looking back, I think that it was the strongest innovation of the PE, along with the infantry elements (however rudimentary they have looked).
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