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Old 08-08-2019, 05:43 PM   #1
John Pancoast
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Default Escort crew rating

I'd like to take a look at experimenting with changing some of these; hopefully stronger as the escort ai in the game stinks.

I know there are different ratings, such as poor, average, elite, etc. But searching with S3d editor, I can't find them.
Can these ratings be changed, and if so where is it done ?
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:36 AM   #2
Niume
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IIRC they are changed via Mission editor. The campaign files.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Niume View Post
IIRC they are changed via Mission editor. The campaign files.
Ok, thanks.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:45 AM   #4
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If you use a text editor for that, the listings are "CrewRating=x" lines, where "x" is from "0" (zero) to "4", with 0=Poor, 1=Novice, 2=Competent, 3=Veteran, and 4=Elite. Doing editing for these would be daunting to say the least if using the Mission Editor, though it is certainly possible.

If you use something like Notepad++ or 010 Editor (costs money, but highly recommended for chores like this for its scripting power), you can do a search to find all occurrences of "CrewRating=", and decide how much editing you want to do... As an example, in the Stock game, there are 3383 "hits" for "CrewRating=" in Campaign_RND.mis, of which none are set to "5", 802 are set to "4", 733 are set to "3", 924 are set to "2", 358 are set to "1" and 566 are set to "0". Depending upon the mod(s) you are using, these figures will be different, but you can see in stock that the devs didn't want to scare-off or frustrate folks with rammings and depth charge attacks...
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Old 08-09-2019, 12:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
If you use a text editor for that, the listings are "CrewRating=x" lines, where "x" is from "0" (zero) to "4", with 0=Poor, 1=Novice, 2=Competent, 3=Veteran, and 4=Elite. Doing editing for these would be daunting to say the least if using the Mission Editor, though it is certainly possible.

If you use something like Notepad++ or 010 Editor (costs money, but highly recommended for chores like this for its scripting power), you can do a search to find all occurrences of "CrewRating=", and decide how much editing you want to do... As an example, in the Stock game, there are 3383 "hits" for "CrewRating=" in Campaign_RND.mis, of which none are set to "5", 802 are set to "4", 733 are set to "3", 924 are set to "2", 358 are set to "1" and 566 are set to "0". Depending upon the mod(s) you are using, these figures will be different, but you can see in stock that the devs didn't want to scare-off or frustrate folks with rammings and depth charge attacks...
Great info, thanks ! Yeah, I looked in the mission editor..........no thanks; way to much work, with to much chance of screwing something else up with my fumble fingers.

I'd just like to up the early war (until 1942) escorts. Regardless of the mod, they're just plain unrealistically stupid and inept.
It's not like u-boats weren't also sunk during this time, but in the SH3 world you wouldn't think so.

Convoy attacks, I sink ships until I'm out of torpedoes (multiple attacks, almost all two torpedoes per ship), dive (submerged attacks) to 100 meters, set speed to two knots silent running and go do errands for an hour or two. I even go off silent running and reload the torpedoes once I reach 100 meters, using three knots to get to the depth/new course !?! Convoys just go on their merry way without even pinging me. Surface attacks aren't much different results.
Don't even worry about my aspect angle to the escorts. I just turn back to the convoy course and once the tubes are reloaded go at it again.

Mostly with NYGM and GWX. Every patrol I get 15-30k tonnage. I know early war vs later war ASW is different, but early war is to easy imo.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:36 PM   #6
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Just ran the Notepad program you linked to on NYGM and GWX.


In Nygm, the vast (approx. 4700) majority crew ratings are 2 with 1400 being a 3. In Gwx, the vast majority are roughly (approx. 3500 each) evenly spread between 2 and 3.


Both have greatly lesser amounts in 1 and 4, none in 0 or 5. Interesting program, thanks !
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:57 PM   #7
Hebe Vollmaus
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Default Game-balancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pancoast View Post
I'd like to take a look at experimenting with changing some of these; hopefully stronger as the escort ai in the game stinks.

I know there are different ratings, such as poor, average, elite, etc. But searching with S3d editor, I can't find them.
Can these ratings be changed, and if so where is it done ?
You know, but anyway: In SH3 there is no easy way on driving one screw and get the desired result. If you change one thing, that can change also things on completely different and unexpected area.

What you are trying to do may be some sort of balancing. Evan the professional experts or Game-developers (not only SH3) can fail and are failed on this.

There are alot of discussions on this topic, which i cant remember all. A short search on Subsim brings some results:

for SH4 but also relevant for SH3 (without thermal layer)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=111395

in GWX are(!) hardcore-Destroyers
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-137709.html

limits
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-119826.html

limits, Modifying Search-beam
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-194336.html

GWX "uber"AI
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=104377


Keep in mind, that changing the Environment can also have unwanted results to Sensors. For example visual sensor are relying on light and ambient-light.

This Game-balancing, once started, is an ongoing never ending process.

Greetings.
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:45 PM   #8
John Pancoast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebe Vollmaus View Post
You know, but anyway: In SH3 there is no easy way on driving one screw and get the desired result. If you change one thing, that can change also things on completely different and unexpected area.

What you are trying to do may be some sort of balancing. Evan the professional experts or Game-developers (not only SH3) can fail and are failed on this.

There are alot of discussions on this topic, which i cant remember all. A short search on Subsim brings some results:

for SH4 but also relevant for SH3 (without thermal layer)
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=111395

in GWX are(!) hardcore-Destroyers
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-137709.html

limits
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-119826.html

limits, Modifying Search-beam
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/arc.../t-194336.html

GWX "uber"AI
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=104377


Keep in mind, that changing the Environment can also have unwanted results to Sensors. For example visual sensor are relying on light and ambient-light.

This Game-balancing, once started, is an ongoing never ending process.

Greetings.



Yes, all true, thanks. It'd be to much work anyway; lots of things to change.


I've always got a kick out of someone thinking the AI, escorts, etc. in the game are uber, tough, whatever.
I have the feeling those that think so, do things that make the AI seem tough even when they're not.
I.e., hang around watching their torpedo, being at shallow depth and wondering why they get sunk, engaging every aircraft they run across, etc.
They must never have played AOD; that AI was much tougher <g>.


I find the 1939-1942 ai a cakewalk if one uses realistic tactics, etc.


Thanks for the reply !
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