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Old 08-13-2017, 03:16 PM   #1
MaxFear
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Default Submarine parameters and their meaning

I have some question, if anyone knows the answers to these maybe we can share our knowledge...

1. Is there any number on how Ultra Silent mode effects submarines sound levels? Like percentage or -X db?

2. Does submarine displacement has an impact on detection? I have a feeling it does, because no matter what UK's Astute feels like stealth bomber, and I can not hide with my Typhoon class no matter what, every time I start a mission it seems like there is 5 torpedoes in the water trying to kill me.

3. How does aircraft drop torpedoes on you? Sometimes they drop on top of you, but ships that have surface launched rockets that carry torpedoes do nothing in the mean while... Does that mean that each enemy detect by individually or they save the their ammo in case first one does not finish you?

4. Does MOSS show up on enemy radar as submarine or as something else? Do any of the submarines on enemy side launch MOSS'es? If so, how they appear on your radar?
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFear View Post
I have some question, if anyone knows the answers to these maybe we can share our knowledge...

1. Is there any number on how Ultra Silent mode effects submarines sound levels? Like percentage or -X db?

2. Does submarine displacement has an impact on detection? I have a feeling it does, because no matter what UK's Astute feels like stealth bomber, and I can not hide with my Typhoon class no matter what, every time I start a mission it seems like there is 5 torpedoes in the water trying to kill me.

3. How does aircraft drop torpedoes on you? Sometimes they drop on top of you, but ships that have surface launched rockets that carry torpedoes do nothing in the mean while... Does that mean that each enemy detect by individually or they save the their ammo in case first one does not finish you?

4. Does MOSS show up on enemy radar as submarine or as something else? Do any of the submarines on enemy side launch MOSS'es? If so, how they appear on your radar?
1. There is a numer responsible for "ultra silent" bonus in each sub.
2. Definitely yes and profile does matter, if you are head on to sonar ping echo returning will be smaller.
3. Aircrafts use sonar buoys by them they calculate youre position, and vessels that are equipped with rocket torps they will launch them only if they now youre location (if you fire tlam or tasm and they can see that).
4. Have no idea.
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Last edited by PacificWolf; 08-13-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:46 PM   #3
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One thing I have noticed is that the Soviets did not seem to communicate with each other very well. I get a helo following me without torpedoes and it doesn't seem to call the cavalry.

Grateful, but seems a blemish at times.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:15 PM   #4
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The enemy does not use MOSS.
The enemy does communicate.
The astute was too quiet before noise was re-balanced.
The Typhoon has detection issues at periscope depth that have been addressed in updates.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFear View Post
I have some question, if anyone knows the answers to these maybe we can share our knowledge...

1. Is there any number on how Ultra Silent mode effects submarines sound levels? Like percentage or -X db?

2. Does submarine displacement has an impact on detection? I have a feeling it does, because no matter what UK's Astute feels like stealth bomber, and I can not hide with my Typhoon class no matter what, every time I start a mission it seems like there is 5 torpedoes in the water trying to kill me.

3. How does aircraft drop torpedoes on you? Sometimes they drop on top of you, but ships that have surface launched rockets that carry torpedoes do nothing in the mean while... Does that mean that each enemy detect by individually or they save the their ammo in case first one does not finish you?

4. Does MOSS show up on enemy radar as submarine or as something else? Do any of the submarines on enemy side launch MOSS'es? If so, how they appear on your radar?
I will comment on some of the misconceptions.

2. Displacement has no effect on passive detection. Only active and not very much.

3. ASW aircraft depending on the situation may be VERY aggressive and drop on a poor solution. Sometimes, it is not that the ASW forces kill you but break up your attack, thus giving them more time to resolve any contact data that they may have on you. If they can drive you away, thats a mission kill. That's not as good as a platform kill but most will take that and be grateful.
Although the game does not simulate this, Helo's can return and rearm, whereas a fixed wing aircraft has to RTB to do this.

4. Why would a MOSS show up on Radar? Sonar, certainly. That is what they are designed to do. Also, US SSN's do not carry MOSS..
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:44 AM   #6
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#3 happens a little to often. I listen for helos specifically now since they can drop on top of me.

I even get disappointed when I sink a ship and watch it go down with a helo still on its deck.

At what detecting level do Soviet vessels launch weapons? Or helos for that matter. They should be much quicker to "mass" their weapons for saturation, suppression and then to kill.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:22 PM   #7
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Actually, in the real world, you would have more than just one or two helo's operating. You could have four or six.. or more.. Some going active, some staying passive.
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Old 08-17-2017, 03:35 PM   #8
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That is what I mean. It's like the other team has no coach.

Personally, I don't mind it if the Soviets get their game play together.

When a helos dips a sonar. Put a knife between the teeth, exit via lockout, climb the dipping sonar cable, and slice their throats. Use the two torpedoes to take out the 6 other ships and two subs.


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Old 08-18-2017, 02:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Delgard View Post
That is what I mean. It's like the other team has no coach.

Personally, I don't mind it if the Soviets get their game play together.

When a helos dips a sonar. Put a knife between the teeth, exit via lockout, climb the dipping sonar cable, and slice their throats. Use the two torpedoes to take out the 6 other ships and two subs.


No Mercy!
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipkiller1 View Post
3. ASW aircraft depending on the situation may be VERY aggressive and drop on a poor solution. Sometimes, it is not that the ASW forces kill you but break up your attack, thus giving them more time to resolve any contact data that they may have on you. If they can drive you away, thats a mission kill. That's not as good as a platform kill but most will take that and be grateful.
Although the game does not simulate this, Helo's can return and rearm, whereas a fixed wing aircraft has to RTB to do this.
Great points, and that's just it, when you're talking about say a Bear carrying around 12 torpedoes, he has lots of opportunities to perform a little "reconnaissance by fire" drop a fish where he thinks there may be a contact and see what this turns up. Even if this weapon expenditure doesn't bag him a submarine, I'd say its still worth his while if it compels one to reveal itself, since he's still got 11 more.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:29 AM   #11
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Everyone give the capabilities of the air assets way too much credit.
The active dippers detection ranges are really short and passive is even shorter.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipkiller1 View Post
2. Displacement has no effect on passive detection. Only active and not very much.
For clarification, ASPECT has a much greater affect on active sonar returns than anything else. Think of the ship as a piece of paper - if it's flat towards the ship going active, that's a lot of surface area for the sound to reflect from. End on, however, greatly reduces the return.

Quote:
Also, US SSN's do not carry MOSS..
Not anymore - but I think they were a new wonderful thing in the 80's when this is set. If that's the case (haven't looked it up, CBA to do it right now...) then it's still a valid question...

... that I don't have an answer to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shipkiller1 View Post
Everyone give the capabilities of the air assets way too much credit.
The active dippers detection ranges are really short and passive is even shorter.
Yes and no. I worked at SOSUS in the PAC side of the house, and we used airborne assets to track boats fairly often. The trick is that they have to know WHERE to look. Basically, we'd pick them up on LF PNB, determine a position to within XXX nm circles, and sick the airdales on them. When they know where to look, they are VERY good at their jobs.

Of course, in this game, they ARE way better than they should be... who's sending them position data? Of course, if you launched a TLAM/TASM/HARPOON then that's a dead give away, but otherwise, they suffer as Shipkiller noted.
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:15 AM   #13
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I never carried a MOSS in the 80's and do not remember ever hearing of a SSN carrying one, at least on the boats in Norfolk. Although I admit that there could be some 'special project' stuff going around.

I remember plain as day, in 1984 we were in the Med and worked through the air assets, outlying picket's and inner shell of the ASW screen to 4000yds of the Kiev. Took a bunch of pictures and slinked back out. They never knew.
The dream of our CO was to put a torpedo into the Kiev.... He was like a kid in a candy store.. All he had to say is 'Shoot tube one"...
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