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Old 02-02-17, 04:59 AM   #46
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Reece, when I did my first installation of Linux Mint 17 over one year ago, I messed up to choose correct location for the boot loader, and so ended up a bit like you: booting did not work. Your case reminds me a bit of that. I found very detailed and friendly help, step by step, in the primary German forum for Linux Mint.

For the English world, the international primary forum seems to be here:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/

Check for the Newbie section whether they already have an article on it, else ask, as detailed as you can remember. They will talk you through in all detail, I'm sure. They surely did for me - and back then I was completely lost for one day. They rescued me.

Just do not criticise Linux, even when you have valid points. The Linux crowd is a bit - elitist, and touchy, somewhat.

Else, Robbins is right, never put Windows (even old Windows versions!) and Linux on the same HD. Always two HDs. Always install Windows first, Linux second. That is consent out there, and you find this advise in every book on Linux.
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Old 02-02-17, 09:53 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post
Always install Windows first, Linux second. That is consent out there, and you find this advise in every book on Linux.
That's good to know since I haven't read any of the books. That's why it's funny about the articles about Microsoft singing Kumbaya and joining the Linux Foundation to "cooperate" with the Linux community, even "surrendering" to Linux in a few naive articles. Anybody who has puzzled out what you must do to make dual installation work well has to laugh at all that. Microsoft is not a friend of Linux. A huge change of culture in the Evil Empire would have to take place before any coexistance would be voluntary on their part.
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Old 02-02-17, 10:58 AM   #48
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Yes, Microsft is no friend of Linux, their "surrender" to Linux is just due to the facts, and due to their hope to get a certain share in Linux-based software, one day big enough so that they could start to erode Linux from within by setting conditions once too many people again base on these Microsoftic code-injections once again. Like gamers and especially simmers still depend on Windows for game-launching.

Also, there is this story still running that UEFI - which replaces/d BIOS - originally was a project by Microsoft to make installation of Linux on new motherboards impossible or at least so difficult so that peopel would chose Windows instead. In principle what they do now with banning hardware driver support for new hardware running on older Windows versions, so that people should need to run W10.

Its a poisonous viper the Linux Foundations takes to its breast when accepting cooperation with Microsoft. They should not let it in, I think, not allowing it to now grew its foothold it already has squeezed into the door. There is already quite some Microsoft cooperation and code in Linuxverse, and I think that is enough. You can say "Lets see whether this viper really bites" - but why even accpeting the risk of finding out? Its not as if Microsoft has a friendly, clean reputation.
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Old 02-03-17, 07:49 AM   #49
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At least, as the owner of a Linux machine, you have the right to choose your own immigration policy. Some believe the water's warm, let all come in who want to come in for any reason. Some believe that the Evil Empire, while having great things, also contains undesirable elements who will come along with the benefits, destroying both the beneficial aspects of the immigration and the present goodness which resides in Linux. Better to keep it all out you say. I don't see how you can avoid that position. To accept the good is to accept the bad and the consequences of that are not bearable.

I'm not even gaming on Windows machines any more. If it isn't available in native Linux format on Steam or wherever else, I just bit the bullet and quit playing it. It was unfortunate with Unreal Tournament III but such is the cost of safety and enjoyment of what I insist must remain MY computer.
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Old 02-16-17, 04:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reece View Post
Thanks for your time and effort Barracuda but don't go to that much bother, I am hoping next week a friend of mine will be able to help.
Due to distance (150Kms) I counted it out but after all the pain I've been through I might take the trip.....
WOW!!! 2 weeks... I didn't realize it had been that long since my last post...

Did you manage to get it sorted out?

I did finally get a Virtual Machine setup and get Ubuntu 16.10 installed....
The way I managed to get it "the way I wanted", was I chose to manually create the partitions. Much simpler than it sounds, but ultimately I managed to get it sorted the way I wanted it.

I think you might have to choose that option.
The good thing is this: it won't actually make the changes until you start installing.
So you can "create" the partitions as many times as you need to, with out actually touching the hard drive.

If you haven't sorted it out yet let me know, And I can walk you through it....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reece View Post
....
This computer bios is running UEFI mostly for Win 10, I have switched it over to Legacy bios but every time I try to run the Linux disk I get a fatal error.
I think I will have to remove all partitions on sda and sdb and start over.
The only issue with using the UEFI bios, is as RR mentioned, Ubuntu will setup for UEFI, then it won't be configured for the regular old bios. (I turned mine off on my new desktop... but I'm not dual-booting.)
However, you can leave it on and it won't hurt. I know Redhat/Fedora use a "shim" to make the system work with UEFI, Debian/Ubuntu has there way of "making them (UEFI) talk".

If your "live dvd" isn't booting with the regular bios, then I'll have to dig for an answer, as that is a totally new one to me.

---------------------------------

In the VM, I installed Ubuntu with the Unity desktop, I still don't like it.

BUT my recent adventures in Linux land have gone like this...

I pulled one of my R9 380s from my 8 core, as they are supported by the old Catalyst/Crimson drivers, and the new amdgpu open-source kernel driver, and (during the beta, in Ubuntu), are supported by the new AMDGPU-PRO driver.

I pulled it, and placed it in my older dual-core, replacing a pair of HD6750s.
I installed Fedora 24 and updated to the latest kernel. Tried the latest installer patch make the last version of Catalyst/Crimson drivers work with the 4.9 kernel AND... blackscreen.
Well, nuts.
So I uninstall it, and reboot. Then I use the Fedora update tool, and update to Fedora 25.
As I can't get Counter Strike Source to run higher than 12fps in the stress test, and Unigine Heaven benchmark won't actually start with the opensource driver.

Now with Fedora 25, I'm getting the same results. I find out that a kernel boot setting is preventing amdgpu from working. So I remove the setting and amdgpu starts. But crashes with an error that I can't find any reference to on the web.
So I decide, since everything is running in software mode anyway, to install all the desktops.
....
and a bunch of irrelevant comments about them here....


So I can say that you aren't the only one having trouble...

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Old 02-16-17, 06:54 AM   #51
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I have said it before, and remind of it here: "New Windows PCs come with UEFI firmware and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot prevents operating systems from booting unless they’re signed by a key loaded into UEFI — out of the box, only Microsoft-signed software can boot." So: --> https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how...h-secure-boot/
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Old 02-16-17, 10:13 AM   #52
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I forgot all about that little jewel... My son's Dell laptop has that "feature".
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Old 02-17-17, 05:43 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post
I have said it before, and remind of it here: "New Windows PCs come with UEFI firmware and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot prevents operating systems from booting unless they’re signed by a key loaded into UEFI — out of the box, only Microsoft-signed software can boot." So: --> https://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how...h-secure-boot/

I read the link you posted which mentioned that Ubuntu has a "key" in the boot loader...
also note my comment in my last post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracudaUAK View Post
...
I know Redhat/Fedora use a "shim" to make the system work with UEFI, Debian/Ubuntu has there way of "making them (UEFI) talk".
...
Redhat's "shim", and Ubuntu's "making them (UEFI) talk", were both references to them having Secure Boot "keys".


Installing Ubuntu with UEFI on and then turning UEFI off WILL play havoc with the boot loader, as it is setup for one way, and then you suddenly change the hardware, without changing the software configuration.
The "boot loader" simply "takes over" from the BIOS, and lets you choose which "OS" you want to boot. It's not a complicated, self (automatic) configuring piece of software.

ULTIMATELY, I think that Reece's booting issues are simply that Ubuntu failed to INSTALL the boot loader. Because, for what ever reason, it was unable to write to the MBR on the Primary Hard Drive.

I think he may need to re-install Ubuntu. Which shouldn't take too long.


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Old 02-17-17, 08:44 AM   #54
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Interestingly, I just bought a refurbished computer for a client that came with Windows 10 and it only has BIOS: no UEFI! That means that Windows 10 does not need UEFI to work any more than Ubuntu does. They are simply using UEFI as a tool for restraint of free trade, a crime.

So, if you want to dual boot Windows and Ubuntu you can turn off UEFI, reinstall Windows (it does just like Ubuntu. If installed on a BIOS system it installs as BIOS, if installed on a UEFI system it installs as UEFI) and then install Ubuntu. I still recommend two separate hard drives, one for each operating system. Windows has a license to kill and does so without apology.

So neither UEFI nor BIOS is a barrier to Linux installation. Computers that are nasty to set up are because their BIOS menu screens are lousy. My HP All-in-One is a gem of carefully concealed options, hiding behind unknown acronyms meant to keep you from knowing what to do.

So BIOS/UEFI is pretty much a non-issue. I much prefer to use a computer under BIOS so the boot menu is available at bootup. Then I can keep USB and DVD boot out of the boot path, but still have them available to boot from with an <F12> during the boot process. I can also adjust BIOS settings during bootup if I want. That stuff just isn't possible with UEFI.

And while Microsoft flaunts UEFI as a new day in computer security, keeping you safe from things that have never happened to you in 20 years, twice a day they scoop up parts of all files on your system, including corporate secrets if you are a business foolish enough to drink their koolaid, encrypt and compress them into a still huge block that they send to Microsoft at your expense. You are not permitted to know what information they collect, why they collect it or what they are doing with that information.

It's the same distraction technique the Allies used for the Normandy Invasion. Rig up a dead body with fake invasion plans and put it onshore in such a way that the Jerries will find it and conclude the invasion will be quite a ways north. That's UEFI by the way "we are CONCERNED about your security!"

Then the real invasion comes at Normandy with the German divisions safely looking for the invasion elsewhere. The real aim of Windows is to serve you advertisement (half the "start menu" (insert derisive laughter here) is garish, Sesame Street colored tiles with sharp corners selling you stuff you don't want) and collecting information that they can use and sell for "targeted marketing."

Targeted marketing itself is nothing but a trojan horse. It is built on the premise that you don't look at anything but that which you are going to buy. And the corollary that you never buy anything that you haven't first looked at on the web. Serendipity is outlawed in their shallow way of thinking. So if you are a woman who has been suckered by clickbait into opening a page devoted to Viagra, the targeted marketers will say "she's going to buy Viagra!!!!!" And you will be subjected to Viagra ads for the next five years wherever you go on the Internet.

Are you ever going to buy Viagra? No. They are wasting their time. They are stealing money from the advertisers to whom they sell their garbage, which will actually cost them sales by making them spend their resources where there are no sales to be made.

The only way to bring this house of cards down is to refuse to buy anything from phone calls, or from ads inserted into websites by targeted marketers. Write the companies advertised and tell them what you are doing and why. "I have made a decision never to buy anything as a result of a phone call or targeted marketing on the Internet. I would have sought out and bought your product but will now seek an alternative source. Thank you very much for helping me make my purchasing decision."
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Old 02-18-17, 12:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
Interestingly, I just bought a refurbished computer for a client that came with Windows 10 and it only has BIOS: no UEFI! That means that Windows 10 does not need UEFI to work any more than Ubuntu does.

I did some digging, because I was thinking that my old dual-core would have been one of the machines that would have been running Win7 IF I had installed it years ago...
So if I had taken Microsoft up on the "Free Win10 upgrade" my dual-core would have been running W10... but it doesn't have UEFI...

I wasn't sure, but didn't want to say yes, or no, until I found something "concrete".

The only thing that I did run across most places that I looked was that "OEM" installs of Win10 MUST have UEFI and Secure Boot, AND they must be must remain on...
That is, the user shouldn't be able to Disable the UEFI or Secure Boot....

Whether or not this is true, I DO NOT KNOW.

I've only setup one Win10 machine for someone (a gift from a family member), and I didn't go digging that deep into it.
Although, when I went to activate his Office 2016... err, excuse me, his relabeled "office 365". It wanted... everything.

I suggested Libre Office, showed him it was free, and explained that it wasn't going to stop working in 6 months. He agreed, I set it up to default to MS Office formats -so any files he sent to others would be readable- and he was good to go.

So... one step at a time!
One of these days I'll get a few of the "I don't know anything about computers, so Linux seems like something I couldn't do" bunch over here and show them my massive glowing full tower, then I'll boot it, let them see the RGB mechanical switch keyboard, and finally, turn them loose in KDE. *we need a "Evil Villian" / "Evil Overlord" laugh Smilie here*


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Old 02-18-17, 08:06 AM   #56
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I have switched Windows 10 installations from UEFI to BIOS. It works fine. A customer wanted to be able to press the normal keys on bootup to choose boot device. UEFI doesn't allow that.

Think of it this way. In order to access UEFI settings you have to access them from a booted Windows installation. But if Windows crashes then you lose access to those settings, don't you? It's just a flaky system that protects no one.

It's like the Windows change between XP and 7. To the applauding choruses of computer critic drones bought and paid for by Microsoft, the superiority of the Windows 7 repair techniques were trumpeted across the land. All the computer magazines, all the tech websites spouted identical words in unison (a clue they came from the Microsoft muse), "Windows 7 has much better repair tools if your Windows installation goes bust!!!!"

But in fact, system startup repair was and is a black box. "Windows is repairing your system. If it works you'll be able to boot normally after this is done. The procedure may take a long time." That's the sum total of your information and nothing is done to give YOU any useful information which may be used to repair the installation. Not only that but Windows XP used to have a repair install procedure. You put the original install disk in the drive, select Repair Install and Windows is reinstalled, saving all your programs and settings. In Windows 7 and above that option is gone! Instead, you can only access repair install if you do it from your running Windows system. Guess what? If Windows ran you WOULDN'T NEED A REPAIR INSTALL.

Non-existent security. Removal of user options. Severe feature cutbacks. That's Microsoft. The answer is Linux. Steam now has over 3000 commercial games natively working in Linux, 1000 of them released just in the past month. Over a million Steam customers own and play Linux version games. Just released Wine 2.2 runs Fallout 3 and 4 flawlessly. In Linux, no soulless corporation will hunt you down and serve you a lawsuit for publishing a repair disk that actually works.

By the way, I found a great and free Microsloth Windoze repair tool called Lazesoft Recovery Suite. Has many tools that Microsoft doesn't want you to have. Grab it quick before they are sued into oblivion by the company who has your back and cares about your computing experience. With it you can even make, save and restore disk images, just like Acronis True Image! It also has genuinely informative and effective startup repair tools. That alone means Microsoft cannot tolerate their existence.
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Old 02-18-17, 08:35 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
... By the way, I found a great and free Microsloth Windoze repair tool called Lazesoft Recovery Suite. Has many tools that Microsoft doesn't want you to have...
Nice find, sir - not to take this too far off topic...
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Old 02-18-17, 12:23 PM   #58
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I just came up with a brilliant new solution to losing your keys. Merely lock them in the car! Hold it......I'm getting a call from the personnel department at Microsoft....
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Old 02-26-17, 07:12 AM   #59
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Please see: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=35
Thanks.
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