[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

yeah, i did all of that with no joy. i asked just in case i couldn't remember one of those small, semi-important details that is a requirement to make this house-of-cards stand up.

i stripped the mission down to the objectives, and deleted the TSR, and started from scratch.
it.works.now.

this game never ceases to amaze me on its lack of cohesion. i mean look at all of the different ways that dates are handled. drives me nuts. n-v-t-s, nuts.

Well, I tell you, one of the easiest traps to fall into, is using a MapZone for multiple tasks... Do NOT use a MapZone for an Objective zone, and then turn around and think "I need me a message as the player enters the zone to remind them that tankers are the priority. Let's see, what will I use? Ahh, I'm lazy, I'll just use the Obj01 MapZone. That'll work!" In a way, it will work - for the message - but not for the Objective now, and that might give you that same Objective Null, but seems to me, that is usually the "Objective not found" error...

If you do want to use a MapZone for multiple tasks, use it as a Trip for Reach Zone, and use that Trip instead, multiple times. Howeveer, you still cannot use that for an Objective MapZone. Those are like an F6F, and fly solo...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Well, I tell you, one of the easiest traps to fall into, is using a MapZone for multiple tasks... Do NOT use a MapZone for an Objective zone, and then turn around and think "I need me a message as the player enters the zone to remind them that tankers are the priority. Let's see, what will I use? Ahh, I'm lazy, I'll just use the Obj01 MapZone. That'll work!" In a way, it will work - for the message - but not for the Objective now, and that might give you that same Objective Null, but seems to me, that is usually the "Objective not found" error...

If you do want to use a MapZone for multiple tasks, use it as a Trip for Reach Zone, and use that Trip instead, multiple times. Howeveer, you still cannot use that for an Objective MapZone. Those are like an F6F, and fly solo...

yes, that is correct.

i've also learned that one can use a Trigger only once for an Event. If you said that above, then i missed it.

for example, if you enter a Trigger to Reach a Zone, you can use that for an Event Message but you cannot use that same Trigger to upgrade a Hidden Primary Objective, such as is used for "Sink" missions. the second use gets skipped and there is an anomaly in the Objective screen, if an Objective is involved.

I've been re-writing TMO 2.5 missions as i play through it, repairing the Mission(s) of triggers/events that are not working as the designer originally intended. I am also weighing the option of creating a mod of the updated missions for others who may want missions to work as they were intended to work. if any kaleun is interested in this, please post or send me a PM.

more to come....

[propbeanie]

Right, that is correct in the Trigger also for the Objective update, which is basically what my statement insinuated with the "Do NOT use a MapZone for an Objective zone, and then turn around and think" that it'll work for a message trip also. However, if you are going to do a radio message and a "Spawn Update", they can use the same Trigger, but it must be defined as a Trigger. You can have how ever many items as you need to Spawn off of the same Trigger, such as for a lifeguard mission, though I'm sure there's probably a limit, say as a guess 32 or 64 or some such "computer" hex number.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Right, that is correct in the Trigger also for the Objective update, which is basically what my statement insinuated with the "Do NOT use a MapZone for an Objective zone, and then turn around and think" that it'll work for a message trip also. However, if you are going to do a radio message and a "Spawn Update", they can use the same Trigger, but it must be defined as a Trigger. You can have how ever many items as you need to Spawn off of the same Trigger, such as for a lifeguard mission, though I'm sure there's probably a limit, say as a guess 32 or 64 or some such "computer" hex number.

i have never experienced a successful second(or third) usage of a Trigger.
pretty-much a one-to-one correspondence between triggers and events.
theoretically, it should work but this is Ubi so it doesn't work.

[KaleunMarco]

it's September 1942 and we are on our way back to base when we ran into two Kuma CLs heading towards Truk at approx 15 kts.
we closed to approx 4000 yds and there was no sound on the hydrophone.
how i fix that?

[KaleunMarco]

playing TMO 2.5, it's mid-September 1942.
while heading back to base, we encountered a small task force as they were headed to Truk from somewhere NW of the contact point. two Kuma CLs.

the interesting thing about the contact is that neither Kuma was detectable via hydrophone. they made no sound.

has anyone else experienced this and, if so, how did you resolve it?
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\TMO_2_5\MODS]

100 TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
101 1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for TMO 2.5
102 1.5_OTC for 16 to 9 Aspect Ratio_TMO
104 EZ Plot V2.0
300 RSRD ver 5 for TMO
301 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
400 Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton
450 jimimadrid Torpedos
485 TMO Smoke Mod

[KaleunMarco]

Look at all of these targets.......and we are empty, heading back to base.



and this is why we are empty.

[KaleunMarco]

No words are required.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

playing TMO 2.5, it's mid-September 1942.
while heading back to base, we encountered a small task force as they were headed to Truk from somewhere NW of the contact point. two Kuma CLs.

the interesting thing about the contact is that neither Kuma was detectable via hydrophone. they made no sound.

has anyone else experienced this and, if so, how did you resolve it?
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\TMO_2_5\MODS]

100 TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
101 1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for TMO 2.5
102 1.5_OTC for 16 to 9 Aspect Ratio_TMO
104 EZ Plot V2.0
300 RSRD ver 5 for TMO
301 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
400 Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton
450 jimimadrid Torpedos
485 TMO Smoke Mod

Ehhh... deep deep in the depth of the deepest, darest dregs of the grey matter... I seem to remember a "SonarFix"... vickers03?? Eh... anyway, check the links between the dat and the dsd... Was your sonarman able to track them? Were there any sonar lines? Did you see the light at the Sonar station light up green to indicate a contact? I've been trying to break the sonar lines on the PhotoTarget in FotRSU... maybe I'll copy off of "the masters" of Ducimus and lurker_hlb3...

btw, I do not know as I have ever seen that many ships, much less sunk ships in a TMO / RSRDC session before. Maybe across an entire patrol, but not in one area that small...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Ehhh... deep deep in the depth of the deepest, darest dregs of the grey matter... I seem to remember a "SonarFix"... vickers03??

i'll check that out. thanks!

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Eh... anyway, check the links between the dat and the dsd...

dat and dsd of the Kuma? which value would be correct...the dat value or the dsd?

the ShipSound (dsd) points to Node 7 NCL Kuma (highest level of dat)
SoundSource 6(dsd) points to Node 185 aud_engine (dat)
SoundSource 8(dsd) points to Node 186 (under 185) aud_engine (dat)
SoundSource 10(dsd) points Node 185 aud_engine (dat)
SoundSource 12(dsd) points to Node 187 aud_fore (dat)
SoundSource 14(dsd) points to Node 197 aud_propeller (dat)

this is greek to me so i hope it makes sense to you.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Was your sonarman able to track them?

no

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Were there any sonar lines?

no

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Did you see the light at the Sonar station light up green to indicate a contact?

no

[propbeanie]

I am going to have to attempt to replicate what you have there, Mark... lol - I've been trying to "break" that for the PhotoTarget for a while, and all I end up doing is breaking other things instead... lol

But you do have the idea there. The dat file is "Parent" linked to in the dsd file. Open a similar known-good ship, and copy the way they link in it. You of course don't want to copy the link addresses, just the example, such as the dat file Aud nodes to the dsd files links to the SH.sdl file. The Label and ShipSound both link to the dat's main ship node, while the SoundSource nodes will link to various "Aud_" nodes, with usually 4 going to the engine, another to the Aud wake(s) and one to the Aud prop. Other boats/ships will have more. A very easy place to get lost, dazed and confused...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I am going to have to attempt to replicate what you have there, Mark... lol - I've been trying to "break" that for the PhotoTarget for a while, and all I end up doing is breaking other things instead... lol

But you do have the idea there. The dat file is "Parent" linked to in the dsd file. Open a similar known-good ship, and copy the way they link in it. You of course don't want to copy the link addresses, just the example, such as the dat file Aud nodes to the dsd files links to the SH.sdl file. The Label and ShipSound both link to the dat's main ship node, while the SoundSource nodes will link to various "Aud_" nodes, with usually 4 going to the engine, another to the Aud wake(s) and one to the Aud prop. Other boats/ships will have more. A very easy place to get lost, dazed and confused...

is it possible that the links are good but the dsd(?) is not generating sound to be heard? just guessing here.


second issue: vickers03 sound mod is for 2009 and references SH4 1.4. not sure it would be compatible with SH4 1.5 UBM and TMO 2.5. i'll have to take a closer look.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I am going to have to attempt to replicate what you have there, Mark... lol - I've been trying to "break" that for the PhotoTarget for a while, and all I end up doing is breaking other things instead... lol

yeah, i know what that's like: one step forward, three steps backward.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

But you do have the idea there. The dat file is "Parent" linked to in the dsd file. Open a similar known-good ship, and copy the way they link in it. You of course don't want to copy the link addresses, just the example, such as the dat file Aud nodes to the dsd files links to the SH.sdl file. The Label and ShipSound both link to the dat's main ship node, while the SoundSource nodes will link to various "Aud_" nodes, with usually 4 going to the engine, another to the Aud wake(s) and one to the Aud prop. Other boats/ships will have more. A very easy place to get lost, dazed and confused...

i did as you suggested and mapped the dsd pointers to dat for known ships:Shiratsuyu and Fubuki.
then i mapped the Kuma dsd/dat sounds and compared that to the two DD's and everything seems to be according to Hoyle: shipsound maps to the top node, the next four dsd map to audengine, the fifth maps to audfor, and the last maps to audpropeller.
then i mapped the Kuma dsd sounds to the SD.SDL and all of the dsd sounds map to existing sounds.
+++
i think i am going to insert a Kuma in my next mission, driving in circles just west of Midway and see if it has detectable sound. that would show whether my previous mission was one of those UBI anomalies or if something with the Kuma is truly broken.

[propbeanie]

I do not recall where the sonar lines are triggered, but not with the sound. The sound is what you here in the cans yourself though. Your crew is on a different plane... - A Save and re-load, exit, re-enter & reload might do the trick, but a Test mis will def show the warts... but, like an iceberg, how deep that wart runs remains to be seen. I'll try the same mod loadout later today myself and try to get back with you.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I do not recall where the sonar lines are triggered, but not with the sound. The sound is what you here in the cans yourself though. Your crew is on a different plane... - A Save and re-load, exit, re-enter & reload might do the trick, but a Test mis will def show the warts... but, like an iceberg, how deep that wart runs remains to be seen. I'll try the same mod loadout later today myself and try to get back with you.

the silent-kuma-issue from the previous mission appears to be a momentary glitch.
i did as i said i would with planting a kuma and then shoved off but turned off the radar unit.
we detected her visually.


we then closed to a range where i was fairly certain we could detect her via the hydrophone, which we were able to do.



so, in the end, it was a glitch.
a runtime malfunction.
an Ubi easter egg, a rotten, left-in-the-sun-too-long, Ubi easter egg.