Duration of asdic searches?

Fidd · 10-25-19, 06:16 PM

1. If we allow that the time a destroyer can take to prosecute asdic searches and attacks is dependant on not wishing to leave the convoy weakly or unprotected, then it follows that the faster the ship prosecuting the attack, the longer it likely to remain hunting for the attacking U-boat.

2. So, if we can further estimate that the more, numerically, escort ships are present, the less anxious a captain of a destroyer would be in leaving the convoy to continue attacks on a detected U-boat, and the longer he'd spend trying to reacquire it if he's lost contact on asdic.

At which point, the difference in speed between maximum convoy speed, and maximum speed of the warship gives us:

x (time) x (y # of warships remaining in convoy)/z (# of warships continuing attacks on detected u-boats) as a mathematical approximation of how long a warship might continue to hunt for a U-boat once detected.

Following the formula above, a lightly escorted early war convoy of corvettes, will not prosecute asdic searches for nearly as long as one with 3 or 4 much faster destroyers...

It'd certainly make life more interesting in the mid to late war encounters, if a similar formula was used to determine how persistant enemy warships were in searching and depth-charging. As you can probably surmise, I think that currently the duration of searches by escorts is woefully inadequate.

On an unrelated note, and this may have been asked for before, but please can we have the default option of anglicized graphics on depth-gauges and the telegraph etc changeable by experienced players to the correct German language graphics, as it's a real immersion killer, if you'll pardon the phrase.

VonHoffman · 11-30-19, 10:22 PM

+1

They don't loiter/pursue for nearly long enough.

gurudennis · 12-02-19, 05:42 AM

I think this is so for gameplay purposes. If escorts prosecuted their searches much longer, as they did historically, we'd be looking at multiple hours spent under after being detected. In most cases, this would simply cause parties to give up and start a new lobby once detected, which is of course less than ideal because it removes a significant part of the U-boat experience.

Much like torpedoes that reload 10 times faster than in real life, the escort behavior too is altered to offer a form of "soft" time compression. Overall, this is a good thing for the type of game Wolfpack is. It can't be exactly like Silent Hunter because it's multiplayer, real time, has no save system etc.

Ironically, more realism doesn't always mean more fun, although too little realism is a turnoff. Maybe we need realism settings per lobby. Oh, that reminds me:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1695740380

Fidd · 12-02-19, 09:01 AM

Your point about "soft time compression" is well made, however, in my limited experience one seems generally limited to 2 firing passes by an escort. I'm suggesting it should be 5-10 or so, not hours upon hours. As it stands, the period of being hunted is so short it doesn't even affect battery or air-use unduly, and damage beyond loss of light-bulbs is non-existant assuming no near direct-hit.

I can see an argument exists for not introducing longer searches/attacks until a the damage/repair model has more fidelity, as suffering a longer dc attack without more incremental and varied damage to sort out would be poor.

gurudennis · 12-03-19, 03:55 AM

Ah, I see. Slightly longer and more persistent depth charging does sound like a good idea.

Fidd · 12-04-19, 11:30 AM

I was thinking in the order of 15-25 minutes of active hunt/depth-charging. However, as many of you know, the disturbed water from depth-charges made re-acquiring the U-boat very difficult. I do not know what the interval between successful asdic searches was, although I surmise that once most of the bubbles created had reached the surface, this would likely define the earliest point in time where a successful asdic detection could re-occur.

This suggests that the interval above would be proportionate to the depth at which the charges exploded, assuming a steady acceleration of, and constant size of, the bubbles returning to the surface.

This also touches on an as yet unmodeled effect of depth-charges: If charges exploded below the depth of the U-boat, then the effect was to temporarily rob the U-boat of buoyancy, causing it to sink rapidly at least to the level at which the charges detonated. This in turn compels the U-boat crew to have to make more strenuous efforts to attain and maintain depth expending air, or making noise via e-motor derived dynamic buoyancy. In my view this would be a most worthy aspect of boat physics to model.

10-25-19, 06:16 PM	#1
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 417 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Duration of asdic searches? 1. If we allow that the time a destroyer can take to prosecute asdic searches and attacks is dependant on not wishing to leave the convoy weakly or unprotected, then it follows that the faster the ship prosecuting the attack, the longer it likely to remain hunting for the attacking U-boat. 2. So, if we can further estimate that the more, numerically, escort ships are present, the less anxious a captain of a destroyer would be in leaving the convoy to continue attacks on a detected U-boat, and the longer he'd spend trying to reacquire it if he's lost contact on asdic. At which point, the difference in speed between maximum convoy speed, and maximum speed of the warship gives us: x (time) x (y # of warships remaining in convoy)/z (# of warships continuing attacks on detected u-boats) as a mathematical approximation of how long a warship might continue to hunt for a U-boat once detected. Following the formula above, a lightly escorted early war convoy of corvettes, will not prosecute asdic searches for nearly as long as one with 3 or 4 much faster destroyers... It'd certainly make life more interesting in the mid to late war encounters, if a similar formula was used to determine how persistant enemy warships were in searching and depth-charging. As you can probably surmise, I think that currently the duration of searches by escorts is woefully inadequate. On an unrelated note, and this may have been asked for before, but please can we have the default option of anglicized graphics on depth-gauges and the telegraph etc changeable by experienced players to the correct German language graphics, as it's a real immersion killer, if you'll pardon the phrase.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11-30-19, 10:22 PM	#2
VonHoffman Watch Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Near crush depth. Maybe. Posts: 30 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	+1 They don't loiter/pursue for nearly long enough.

12-02-19, 05:42 AM	#3
gurudennis Mate Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 55 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I think this is so for gameplay purposes. If escorts prosecuted their searches much longer, as they did historically, we'd be looking at multiple hours spent under after being detected. In most cases, this would simply cause parties to give up and start a new lobby once detected, which is of course less than ideal because it removes a significant part of the U-boat experience. Much like torpedoes that reload 10 times faster than in real life, the escort behavior too is altered to offer a form of "soft" time compression. Overall, this is a good thing for the type of game Wolfpack is. It can't be exactly like Silent Hunter because it's multiplayer, real time, has no save system etc. Ironically, more realism doesn't always mean more fun, although too little realism is a turnoff. Maybe we need realism settings per lobby. Oh, that reminds me: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1695740380

12-02-19, 09:01 AM	#4
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 417 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Your point about "soft time compression" is well made, however, in my limited experience one seems generally limited to 2 firing passes by an escort. I'm suggesting it should be 5-10 or so, not hours upon hours. As it stands, the period of being hunted is so short it doesn't even affect battery or air-use unduly, and damage beyond loss of light-bulbs is non-existant assuming no near direct-hit. I can see an argument exists for not introducing longer searches/attacks until a the damage/repair model has more fidelity, as suffering a longer dc attack without more incremental and varied damage to sort out would be poor.

12-03-19, 03:55 AM	#5
gurudennis Mate Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 55 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ah, I see. Slightly longer and more persistent depth charging does sound like a good idea.

12-04-19, 11:30 AM	#6
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 417 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I was thinking in the order of 15-25 minutes of active hunt/depth-charging. However, as many of you know, the disturbed water from depth-charges made re-acquiring the U-boat very difficult. I do not know what the interval between successful asdic searches was, although I surmise that once most of the bubbles created had reached the surface, this would likely define the earliest point in time where a successful asdic detection could re-occur. This suggests that the interval above would be proportionate to the depth at which the charges exploded, assuming a steady acceleration of, and constant size of, the bubbles returning to the surface. This also touches on an as yet unmodeled effect of depth-charges: If charges exploded below the depth of the U-boat, then the effect was to temporarily rob the U-boat of buoyancy, causing it to sink rapidly at least to the level at which the charges detonated. This in turn compels the U-boat crew to have to make more strenuous efforts to attain and maintain depth expending air, or making noise via e-motor derived dynamic buoyancy. In my view this would be a most worthy aspect of boat physics to model.