SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2019, 07:35 AM   #661
sublynx
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope
Posts: 1,675
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 7
Default

Here's a link to a newspaper article about a letter from August 1944 that a deserter had written to his family moments before his execution:

https://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/a/2016092322359712

It's in Finnish but maybe Google translate will help. The idea is very clear, though. The man states that his nerves just weren't up to the demands and he's certain Christ will forgive him his inability. He also states that the men who will execute him know he is not able to fight anymore but they have to do their duty despite of that. He will die not as a criminal, but as a victim of his own nerves

My grandfather (IR 25, 4th Division) told me about desertions that soldiers didn't want the deserters punished and that they tried to protect their fellow soldiers from any punishment. He said that all understood how difficult it was for every one.

He served in a battalion where everybody was from the same region. They knew each other from before the war and knew that after the war they would be neighbours to each other and to the relatives of those that would die. I'd suspect one would not want anyone executed or put in jail, if the consequence would be that the sister or mother of the executed deserter would live in the same village.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS
sublynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:25 AM   #662
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 135,187
Downloads: 49
Uploads: 11


Default

Yep, potentially quite a dilemma I should imagine. Reminds me of many years ago when I asked my father if he thought he was brave during his srevice in WWII and he informed me that as far as he was aware, most of the young men were actually a bit scared but carried out their orders in support of each other.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 09:25 AM   #663
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

20 July 1944

Finnish troops in Ladoga Karelia have had to retreat to the old Winter War lines at Tolvajärvi.

Finnish daily losses: 88


Soviet T-34 in Vuosalmi.

***

21 July 1944

Finnish 21st Brigade is nearly surrounded in Liusvaara area, but manages to break out. They, however, lose the equipment of Heavy Battery 41.

Detachment Kuhlmey begins to leave Finland.

Finnish daily losses: 156


Knocked out Soviet tank in Nietjärvi direction.

***

22 july 1944

Soviet 30th Brigade is defeated in lake Vegarusjärvi.

Finnish daily losses: 89


Anti-tank trench. (Nietjärvi)

***

23 July 1944

Finnish troops begin to regroup for defense at Vegarus and on the northern parts of the U-line.

Finnish daily losses: 85

***

24 July 1944

Soviet partisan detachment attacks a small three-house village in Kuhmo. Eight civilians area killed, five of whom are children. This attack comes ten days after partisans attacked Lokka village where 22 civilians were killed.

Finnish daily losses: 80


Two veterans of the Battle of Äyräpää-Vuosalmi before heading to the rear for rest.

Last edited by Dowly; 07-24-2019 at 11:48 PM.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 10:19 AM   #664
STEED
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Down Town UK
Posts: 27,412
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 48


Default

Dowly did the front line fall static in Finland during the Soviet summer offensive operation bagration?
__________________
A good reason not to vote any more -
Never trust the government never trust a politician.
Just look at this never ending Brexit mess, I say kick them all out now!
STEED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 11:16 AM   #665
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED View Post
Dowly did the front line fall static in Finland during the Soviet summer offensive operation bagration?
No. At the time Bagration began, both Tali-Ihantala and Äyräpää-Vuosalmi battles had not yet even began.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 01:55 PM   #666
STEED
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Down Town UK
Posts: 27,412
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 48


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
No. At the time Bagration began, both Tali-Ihantala and Äyräpää-Vuosalmi battles had not yet even began.
Wow..thanks.
__________________
A good reason not to vote any more -
Never trust the government never trust a politician.
Just look at this never ending Brexit mess, I say kick them all out now!
STEED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 11:51 PM   #667
sublynx
Sea Lord
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope
Posts: 1,675
Downloads: 172
Uploads: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED View Post
Wow..thanks.
The Russians had a huge amount of operations going on in 1944. Here's a list:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra...n_World_War_II
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS
sublynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2019, 03:09 AM   #668
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

25 July 1944

As the fighting begins to calm down in Ladoga Karelia, there still remains a threat on the far northern flank; 21st Brigade is not able to stop the advance of two Soviet divisions towards Ilomantsi.
Commander of 14th Division, Major General Raappana, is ordered to take command in the area and launch a counter-attack to stop the enemy. For this, he is given command of the 21st Brigade, Detachment Partinen of 14th Division, Border Jaeger Battalion 3 and the Cavalry Brigade which is transfered from the Isthmus.


Situation in Ladoga Karelia on 24 July.

Finnish daily losses: 104


Front line terrain at Ihantala, a number of knocked out Soviet tanks visible.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2019, 11:12 AM   #669
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

26 July 1944

Major General Raappana arrives at 21st Brigade HQ. He has received his orders; to stop the advance of the enemy towards Ilomantsi and push them back to Salmijärvi - Saarijärvi - Ylä-Vuottojärvi line.
He also orders the 21st Brigade to withdraw to southeast towards Möhkö in hopes the Soviet 289. Division will follow them along with their heavy equipment.


Situation in Ilomantsi area.

Finnish daily losses: 100


Colonel Ehrnrooth, Lieutenant Colonel Halsti and Major Varta at Vuosalmi.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 07:24 AM   #670
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

27 July 1944

Soviet forces breach into the U-line, but Finnish artillery forces them to break off.

Finnish daily losses: 106


Lieutenant Lauri Törni's (ltr. Larry Thorne) Jaeger Company heading out for a counter-attack. (north of Tolvajärvi)

***

28 July 1944

President Ryti announces to a small inner circle his plans to resign. His health is getting worse and he sees that it would be better, if both civilian and military matters would be overseen by one man.

Mannerheim agrees to return the German 122. Division to Estonia.

Finnish daily losses: 65


Fires lit by Finnish incendiary rounds on the enemy's side. (Vuosalmi)

***

29 July 1944

Ryti, Walden and Tanner fly to Mannerheim's HQ to discuss Ryti's resignation.
Mannerheim is asked and agrees to become the next President following Ryti signing his resignation.

Finnish daily losses: 111


Camouflaged Coastal Ship Väinämöinen.

***

30 July 1944

1st Division regroups for defense at Tolvajärvi. Fighting begins to calm down in this sector as well.

Finnish daily losses: 114
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2019, 03:45 AM   #671
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

31 July 1944

Group Raappana's attack begins in Ilomantsi. The plan is a double envelopment aiming to encircle the two Soviet divisions in two "mottis"; 176.D in Vellivaara-Lehmivaara area and 289.D in Lutikkavaara.


Group Raappana's plan of attack.

*

President Ryti signs his resignation and the Parliament is notified.

Finnish daily losses: 92

Finnish losses in July: 7,142

Finnish losses in the war so far: 60,954


Men of the Cavalry Brigade crossing a stream in the Ilomantsi wilderness.

***

1 August 1944

Ilomantsi: Elements of the Cavalry Brigade reach the Lehmivaara-Kuolismaa road, cutting the supply and withdrawal route of the Soviet 176. Division. Finnish troops have also made progress to the north and east of the division.

Finnish daily losses: 104


Last farewell on her brother's grave. (Suistamo)

***

2 August 1944

Ilomantsi: Soviet 289.D is becoming surrounded as the troops of 21st Brigade cut their road connections back east in Lehtolampi.

Attempts by Soviet 70. Naval Infantry Brigade to reopen the road to 176.D fail.

Finnish daily losses: 99


Downed Il-2 somewhere in Ladoga Karelia.

Last edited by Dowly; 08-02-2019 at 06:35 AM.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 08:23 AM   #672
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Hola. Since my time will be limited (went back to school), I'll be going back to posting once a week from now on.
This post will be updated with photos later over the weekend/today.

*

3 August 1944

Finns launch an counter-attack in Rukajärvi to dislodge an enemy battalion that is trying to get to the rear of the 14th Division in Ontrosenvaara.

Ilomantsi: Fighting continues as Finnish troops manage to weakly encircle Soviet 176. and 289. Divisions.

Finnish daily losses: 124



Private Toivo Ilomäki poses with his AT-gun with which he has destroyed 21 tanks. (Ladoga Karelia)
Ilomäki was later promoted to Private First Class and received the Mannerheim Cross on 2 October 1944.
His final tally of 21 destroyed tanks remains a record in Finnish military history.
The AT-gun used (75 K/40) can be seen today at the Parola Tank Museum.


***

4 August 1944

Using their emergency powers, Finnish parliament names Mannerheim the new president as Ryti resigns.

Detachment Vehniäinen's long-range patrol returns to Finnish lines after operating for 51 days behind enemy lines on the Karelian Isthmus. The patrol has not suffered any losses.


Ilomantsi situation 31.7-4.8

Finnish daily losses: 121




Machinegunner at Ontrosenvaara bridge, Rukajärvi.

***

5 August 1944

At Ihantala the enemy has set up an outpost in the cover of the many disabled tanks on the battlefield 200 meters from Finnish positions. Decision is made to destroy this outpost.
Assault group formed from 6th Division troops attack the outpost after it is first bombed from air and shelled with artillery. Nine of the tanks are destroyed with satchel charges.
6th Division's commander, Major-General Vihma, is killed in artillery fire as he is observing the attack from the front lines.

Ilomantsi: Soviet 3. Naval Infantry Brigade (3.Merijv.Pr.) tries to open the way to 289.D by attacking Finnish I/21.Pr. from east at Miikkulanvaara.

Finnish daily losses: 131

***

6 August 1944

Rukajärvi: Finnish troops encircle and destroy the enemy battalion operating in the Ontrosenvaara area.

Ilomantsi: Soviet 289. Division breaks out of the Lutikkavaara encirclement.
69. and 70. Naval Infantry Brigades start their attacks against the Finns to help 176.D break out on Group Raappana's left flank.

Finnish daily losses: 101




Finnish guns firing a volley in the autumn night. (Ladoga Karelia)

***

7 August 1944

No entry.

Finnish daily losses: 124




Surprise attack ended the war for these Soviet soldiers. (Ilomantsi area)

***

8 August 1944

Ilomantsi: Soviet 176.Division begins to break out from the encirclement.

Finnish daily losses: 95




Surrendering Soviet soldier crawls out from a dug-out. (Ilomantsi area)

***

9 August 1944

Battle of Ilomantsi ends as both Soviet divisions withdraw from the Finnish border. Soviet losses are about 5,000 men, 1,500 killed. Finns suffered 2,500 casualties during the battle.
Fighting in Ladoga Karelia comes to an end on the following day as Soviet 32. Army regroups for defense.


Withdrawal of Soviet troops 5.-9.8

Finnish daily losses: 88

Last edited by Dowly; 08-15-2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Added photos
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2019, 11:23 AM   #673
Schroeder
Fun Terminator
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,296
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
Hola. Since my time will be limited (went back to school)
So you finally decided to graduate elementary school?
Seriously though, what are you studying?
__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2019, 12:12 PM   #674
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Seriously though, what are you studying?

Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2019, 10:24 PM   #675
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,352
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

10 August 1944

Soviet 32.Army regroups for defense in Ladoga Karelia.

Finnish daily losses: 72


Some of the material left behind by the Soviet 176.Division. (Lehmivaara, Ilomantsi)

***

11 August 1944

Headquarters orders V.Corps (Bay of Viipuri) to assemble a 100-man team to be used for reconnaissance patrols across the bay.

Finnish daily losses: 54


Tank hunters heading to the front line at Vuosalmi.

***

12 August 1944

Finnish attempt to take the Vasikkasaari island on Bay of Viipuri fails.

Finnish daily losses: 79

***

13 August 1944

No entry.

Finnish daily losses: 58


Patrol on no man's land. (Vegarusjärvi-Hiisjärvi isthmus)

***

14 August 1944

III.Corps repels a company-size enemy attack in Vuosalmi area.

Finnish daily losses: 35

***

15 August 1944

Sweden promises to deliver 150,000 tons of grain to Finland during the fall.

Finnish daily losses: 25


A pair of Messerschmitt 109's over Lappeenranta airbase.

***

16 August 1944

In Ladoga Karelia, II.Corps' assault group attacks an enemy base north of Loimola. In the fighting, the enemy loses about 160 men. Finnish losses are one dead and 23 wounded.

Finnish daily losses: 41


Late night post has arrived. (Ladoga Karelia)
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
continuation war , jatkosota

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim