New to Subsim, Silent Hunter 4 question

yetanotherlancer · 12-07-16, 08:54 PM

Hello all, this is my first post! I've browsed these forums for quite sometime now and have been sub(simming) since Silent Service and Aces of the Deep came out. I haven't played Silent Hunter 2 or 3 (I'll probably get tarred and feathered). Currently my addiction now is Silent Hunter 4 - Wolves of the Pacific U Boat missions playing mainly the American Campaign. I'm really impressed with all the support and mods from the dedicated team members here.

I've just downloaded and figured out how to install/activate the TMO version 2.5 mod and it's pretty cool! I'm debating starting a totally realistic game with no map contact update with manual TDC. I've practiced manual TDC before, however it's easy to obtain the speed and angle of bow measurements with map contacts "on" with the provided map tools. Has anyone figured out how to acquire the speed and also the AOB with no map contact update? I imagine it's somewhat estimated due to the measurement of time and how far the ship travels, yet it seems that it will be challenging without the ship on the map to observe.

Thanks again in advance for the response and also the support/entertainment the past year or so.

razark · 12-08-16, 01:00 AM

Welcome to Subsim!

Five approaches come to mind, four of which I've done myself:

A. When you get a range and bearing (by periscope, radar, magic 8-ball, whatever), go to the map screen and pause the game. Plot the range and bearing from your boat (keep in mind, reported bearings are relative, so you'll need to convert to absolute) and make a mark on the map. Use the in-game stopwatch for timing, since it will pause when you pause. Eventually, you'll have a plot of the target that you can use to get your information.
When I've used this method, I've kept a log of Mark, Time, Bearing, Range, and a running calculation of his distance traveled, speed, course, and AoB as well as my own course and speed for reference. Bonus, no special tools needed.
(Pausing may feel like cheating, but a real skipper had a whole party for tracking a contact.)

2. Use a maneuvering board. Since all marks are relative to your boat at the center, you can keep a log of contact time, bearing, and range (in fact, the maneuvering board has spaces for these notes on it) and plot these on the board as you have time.
Downside: Special tools, such as parallel ruler and dividers/compass become very useful, as well as learning how to use the board.

Slide rule- There's a method (here) where using two bearing/range fixes and a known time interval between them, you can figure out speed and AoB using a slide rule with a sine scale.
Downside: Some effort is needed, but otherwise, none. Everyone owns a sliderule, right? (A Submarine Attack Course Finder is rather simple to construct, completely authentic, and a very useful tool for figuring certain problems. It also happens to be a slide rule with a sine scale. In fact, you should make one anyway, since it's so useful, and so damn awesome to hold in your hands the exact same tool that was in use during the war.)

IV. Estimate/Guess/Eyeball. This is probably the single most common method used during the war. Dick O'Kane was known for his ability to determine AoB to within a degree by looking at a target. (Not so good at estimating tonnage, but that's a different story.) Practice and experience as well as knowing what to look for are key to making this work.
Downside: Practice and experience as well as knowing what to look for are key to making this work.

> Draw your own plot. This one I haven't done. Get a large sheet of paper. Figure out a distance scale to use. Draw your location on the paper, and draw the target location each time you get a fix. You'll need to keep an eye on your own speed and course, so that you can update your location each time you update the plot.
Downsides: Swapping between the computer and a table to draw the plot. Finding large sheets of paper. Convincing a friend to act as the tracking party and stand there while you call out numbers for him to plot and report back to you.

Rockin Robbins · 12-08-16, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetanotherlancer

Hello all, this is my first post! I've browsed these forums for quite sometime now and have been sub(simming) since Silent Service and Aces of the Deep came out. I haven't played Silent Hunter 2 or 3 (I'll probably get tarred and feathered). Currently my addiction now is Silent Hunter 4 - Wolves of the Pacific U Boat missions playing mainly the American Campaign. I'm really impressed with all the support and mods from the dedicated team members here.

I've just downloaded and figured out how to install/activate the TMO version 2.5 mod and it's pretty cool! I'm debating starting a totally realistic game with no map contact update with manual TDC. I've practiced manual TDC before, however it's easy to obtain the speed and angle of bow measurements with map contacts "on" with the provided map tools. Has anyone figured out how to acquire the speed and also the AOB with no map contact update? I imagine it's somewhat estimated due to the measurement of time and how far the ship travels, yet it seems that it will be challenging without the ship on the map to observe.

Thanks again in advance for the response and also the support/entertainment the past year or so.

No map contacts update is strictly a DIFFICULTY option and not a REALISM upgrade. It is analogous to standing on I-75 in the middle of Atlanta and crossing all umpteen lanes with a blindfold on. It's not impossible. A deaf person might do it with about as much difficulty as you or I. Although it would be a great achievement, it would have nothing to do with realism, as no sane sighted person would try it.

Similarly, submarine approaches were done from the plot. Especially with radar, they would have information on their plots at least as accurate as TMO's. They would plan their approach based on the plot. Some commanders used a crewman with the banjo, is/was, all were similar slide rules, as a backup to the TDC/plot and didn't fire if both were not in agreement.

But no sub commander actually ran the sub and did all the calculating himself. His crew did that and told him when the solution was good. TMO with map contact updates on is the best simulation of reality.

Map updates off, while a fine achievement, like crossing umpteen lanes of I-75 blindfolded, is a laudable achievement, but realism does not live there. It's just a stunt.

Aktungbby · 12-08-16, 10:08 AM

yetanotherlancer!

yetanotherlancer · 12-08-16, 06:47 PM

Thank you everyone for the replies! I may try razark's advice points, however if it becomes overly frustrating I will probably return to port and turn it back on! Just thought I'd try something new as I've completed two campaigns from 1941 and was looking to up the difficulty a little bit. TMO definitely makes the nights more dark when not looking through the observation scope. I also like how the smoke now trails off from the funnels so you can sight it in the distance. Hope everyone has a nice day.

fireftr18 · 12-08-16, 08:13 PM

Welcome aboard yetanotherlancer!

I can't help with your questions. I keep map contacts on. For that matter, I still play auto-targeting because I'm lazy.

Now go polish the torpedos.

THEBERBSTER · 12-09-16, 05:35 AM

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > yetanotherlancer
Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community
Highly Recommended SH4 > Webster’s GFO (Mini Mega Mod)
Steam Conversion SH4 Installation Instructions By ValoWay

Rockin Robbins · 12-09-16, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yetanotherlancer

Thank you everyone for the replies! I may try razark's advice points, however if it becomes overly frustrating I will probably return to port and turn it back on! Just thought I'd try something new as I've completed two campaigns from 1941 and was looking to up the difficulty a little bit. TMO definitely makes the nights more dark when not looking through the observation scope. I also like how the smoke now trails off from the funnels so you can sight it in the distance. Hope everyone has a nice day.

TMO is a masterpiece. It's currently the finest supermod in SH4 for a lot of reasons, but the plotting system is the most important reason for me. Considering the limitations of the game I can't imagine a way to improve on it.

Rockin Robbins · 12-09-16, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

yetanotherlancer!

You mean YOU're a lancer too?

12-07-16, 08:54 PM	#1
yetanotherlancer Nub Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	New to Subsim, Silent Hunter 4 question Hello all, this is my first post! I've browsed these forums for quite sometime now and have been sub(simming) since Silent Service and Aces of the Deep came out. I haven't played Silent Hunter 2 or 3 (I'll probably get tarred and feathered). Currently my addiction now is Silent Hunter 4 - Wolves of the Pacific U Boat missions playing mainly the American Campaign. I'm really impressed with all the support and mods from the dedicated team members here. I've just downloaded and figured out how to install/activate the TMO version 2.5 mod and it's pretty cool! I'm debating starting a totally realistic game with no map contact update with manual TDC. I've practiced manual TDC before, however it's easy to obtain the speed and angle of bow measurements with map contacts "on" with the provided map tools. Has anyone figured out how to acquire the speed and also the AOB with no map contact update? I imagine it's somewhat estimated due to the measurement of time and how far the ship travels, yet it seems that it will be challenging without the ship on the map to observe. Thanks again in advance for the response and also the support/entertainment the past year or so. Last edited by yetanotherlancer; 12-08-16 at 12:03 AM.

12-08-16, 01:00 AM	#2
razark Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,725 Downloads: 393 Uploads: 12	Welcome to Subsim! Five approaches come to mind, four of which I've done myself: A. When you get a range and bearing (by periscope, radar, magic 8-ball, whatever), go to the map screen and pause the game. Plot the range and bearing from your boat (keep in mind, reported bearings are relative, so you'll need to convert to absolute) and make a mark on the map. Use the in-game stopwatch for timing, since it will pause when you pause. Eventually, you'll have a plot of the target that you can use to get your information. When I've used this method, I've kept a log of Mark, Time, Bearing, Range, and a running calculation of his distance traveled, speed, course, and AoB as well as my own course and speed for reference. Bonus, no special tools needed. (Pausing may feel like cheating, but a real skipper had a whole party for tracking a contact.) 2. Use a maneuvering board. Since all marks are relative to your boat at the center, you can keep a log of contact time, bearing, and range (in fact, the maneuvering board has spaces for these notes on it) and plot these on the board as you have time. Downside: Special tools, such as parallel ruler and dividers/compass become very useful, as well as learning how to use the board. Slide rule- There's a method (here) where using two bearing/range fixes and a known time interval between them, you can figure out speed and AoB using a slide rule with a sine scale. Downside: Some effort is needed, but otherwise, none. Everyone owns a sliderule, right? (A Submarine Attack Course Finder is rather simple to construct, completely authentic, and a very useful tool for figuring certain problems. It also happens to be a slide rule with a sine scale. In fact, you should make one anyway, since it's so useful, and so damn awesome to hold in your hands the exact same tool that was in use during the war.) IV. Estimate/Guess/Eyeball. This is probably the single most common method used during the war. Dick O'Kane was known for his ability to determine AoB to within a degree by looking at a target. (Not so good at estimating tonnage, but that's a different story.) Practice and experience as well as knowing what to look for are key to making this work. Downside: Practice and experience as well as knowing what to look for are key to making this work. > Draw your own plot. This one I haven't done. Get a large sheet of paper. Figure out a distance scale to use. Draw your location on the paper, and draw the target location each time you get a fix. You'll need to keep an eye on your own speed and course, so that you can update your location each time you update the plot. Downsides: Swapping between the computer and a table to draw the plot. Finding large sheets of paper. Convincing a friend to act as the tracking party and stand there while you call out numbers for him to plot and report back to you. __________________ "Never ask a World War II history buff for a 'final solution' to your problem!"

12-08-16, 10:08 AM	#4
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,846 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard! yetanotherlancer! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

12-08-16, 08:13 PM	#6
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard yetanotherlancer! I can't help with your questions. I keep map contacts on. For that matter, I still play auto-targeting because I'm lazy. Now go polish the torpedos. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

12-09-16, 05:35 AM	#7
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > yetanotherlancer Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community Highly Recommended SH4 > Webster’s GFO (Mini Mega Mod) Steam Conversion SH4 Installation Instructions By ValoWay __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

12-08-16, 06:47 PM	#5
yetanotherlancer Nub Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Thank you everyone for the replies! I may try razark's advice points, however if it becomes overly frustrating I will probably return to port and turn it back on! Just thought I'd try something new as I've completed two campaigns from 1941 and was looking to up the difficulty a little bit. TMO definitely makes the nights more dark when not looking through the observation scope. I also like how the smoke now trails off from the funnels so you can sight it in the distance. Hope everyone has a nice day.