Well, it can be done.

Bubblehead1980 · 06-10-21, 02:26 PM

After months of testing, adjusting, and more testing along with modifying convoys etc, happy to announce that realistic night surface attacks, including from inside the convoy screen (under many circumstances, especially in mid 1944 on) is possible in TMO. Also, had two members of my "wolf pack" attack the convoy as well, AI submarines with torpedoes and they sunk one ship damaged another. This was a major goal of my upgrade for TMO required a lot of time and effort.

As likely mentioned before, it has always bothered me how SH 4 was not set up to allow properly conducted night surface attacks. The nights were far too light, enemy's night vision when it comes to player submarines far too competent. Submarines were incredibly difficult to spot on surface at night. Took some time but found the balance.

This was primarily accomplished by modifying some visual settings in sim.cfg after adding the darker nights mod. Enemy skill level plays a factor as well and since player never knows this beforehand, makes things interesting. Bottom line, I was seeking realism with quality of gameplay, maintaining the element of danger, and challenge inherent to these type of attacks and the TMO mod in general, found it.

Convoys were modified to represent the change in how japanese convoys were organized first starting on limited basis in Fall 1943 but really taking hold in late Spring and through Summer of 1944. Many convoys grew to large (by Japanese standards) of 10-12 merchants and 4-6 escorts, sometimes more of both. They at times had an escort carrier along to provide air cover. In some areas long range flying boats and bombers provided air cover on a near constant basis as convoys transited the south china sea from Singapore to japan. These convoys were somewhat similar to Allied convoys in the Atlantic. Japanese even on a limited basis had "decoy" groups and others similar to the escort groups operated by Allies in the Atlantic, which sunk many u boats. USS Barb was lured in by one in August 1944, sinking the decoy ship, but then taking a determined counterattack by the escorts, including some "sleepers" who were hiding just over the horizon. A few decoy groups are now present in the campaign in 1944/45.

Not every convoy will be organized same and not every will permit the tactic of going inside the convoy. Other factors such as a moonlight, sea state, etc are major factors in surface attacks as already were. Sometimes, you have to shoot from outside the screen or even go for submerged periscope attack (not so easy in TMO as the night optics now not standard until 1945, per history.) The "night periscope" is now the observation scope as it was most of the war, using my "Real Scopes" mod, it does transmit light better than the attack scope but still not easy to shoot with at night unless have some moonlight or are very close to target.

Finally, seems the AI torpedo firing fleetboats participated in this one. I have some placed along convoy routes and a few set to appear on the scripted (non random) convoys with a 50 percent chance of spawning. So sometimes may have assistance, sometimes may not. Not long after attacking from inside a convoy on 17 November 1944....saw ship in far starboard column erupted in flames and escorts rush to the area. They began attacking a submerged submarine, firing with guns (one of the silly SH 4 things, they see submerged AI subs as surfaced)and depth charges when were close enough.

South China Sea Area A2-East of Luzon.
USS Besugo SS-321 2nd War Patrol. Full Report with screenshots.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2751920

KaleunMarco · 06-10-21, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

After months of testing, adjusting, and more testing along with modifying convoys etc, happy to announce that realistic night surface attacks, including from inside the convoy screen (under many circumstances, especially in mid 1944 on) is possible in TMO. Also, had two members of my "wolf pack" attack the convoy as well, AI submarines with torpedoes and they sunk one ship damaged another. This was a major goal of my upgrade for TMO required a lot of time and effort.

did you lower just the Light Factor parameter or did you adjust other Visual parameters in sim.cfg?

Bubblehead1980 · 06-10-21, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

did you lower just the Light Factor parameter or did you adjust other Visual parameters in sim.cfg?

I sent you a PM

06-11-21, 05:56 AM

As a non-English speaking SH4 player I don't exactly understand what Bubblehead1980 is talking about. Is he discussing a latest version of TMO here? Or maybe another MOD?

Mad Mardigan · 06-11-21, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy

As a non-English speaking SH4 player I don't exactly understand what Bubblehead1980 is talking about. Is he discussing a latest version of TMO here? Or maybe another MOD?

Ahoy, easy...

What Bubblehead1980, is about... or doing here, easy... is working on revamping. if you know of Operation Monsun: Dark waters, by Fifi... then essentially, the same thing that Fifi did with lurker's original 'Operation Monsun'.

Hope that helps you to better understand now...

M. M.

Bubblehead1980 · 06-11-21, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy

As a non-English speaking SH4 player I don't exactly understand what Bubblehead1980 is talking about. Is he discussing a latest version of TMO here? Or maybe another MOD?

For a year now I have been working on an upgrade to TMO and plan to release at the end of this month. Among things included in the upgrade is the ability for the player to now pull off realistic night surface attacks, which to my knowledge has not been possible thus far in stock, TMO etc. Player can now maneuver submarine on surface and attack in a realistic manner, but the escorts merchants are not blind and are still very much a threat. This is mainly possible due to the nights being darker, more in line with reality of nights on the open ocean. Of course moonlight is a key factor. I will explain further upon release but bottom line finally can utilize this method of attack properly, even from inside the convoy in some circumstances...depends on variety of factors but it is possible.

I also added many ships to roster and modified the traffic to be more in line with history, offer variety so not engaging same old ships all of the time, modified the depth charges, torpedoes, and damage models some. Plus other changes which will be listed in a readme.

I still have some work to do that won't make it in this month's release as have ran into tech problems on few things and do not have time to sort them out, but overall it is complete.

06-11-21, 02:28 PM

Many thanks bb1980 for explaining.
I'm looking forward for the upgrade...

06-10-21, 02:26 PM	#1
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	Well, it can be done. After months of testing, adjusting, and more testing along with modifying convoys etc, happy to announce that realistic night surface attacks, including from inside the convoy screen (under many circumstances, especially in mid 1944 on) is possible in TMO. Also, had two members of my "wolf pack" attack the convoy as well, AI submarines with torpedoes and they sunk one ship damaged another. This was a major goal of my upgrade for TMO required a lot of time and effort. As likely mentioned before, it has always bothered me how SH 4 was not set up to allow properly conducted night surface attacks. The nights were far too light, enemy's night vision when it comes to player submarines far too competent. Submarines were incredibly difficult to spot on surface at night. Took some time but found the balance. This was primarily accomplished by modifying some visual settings in sim.cfg after adding the darker nights mod. Enemy skill level plays a factor as well and since player never knows this beforehand, makes things interesting. Bottom line, I was seeking realism with quality of gameplay, maintaining the element of danger, and challenge inherent to these type of attacks and the TMO mod in general, found it. Convoys were modified to represent the change in how japanese convoys were organized first starting on limited basis in Fall 1943 but really taking hold in late Spring and through Summer of 1944. Many convoys grew to large (by Japanese standards) of 10-12 merchants and 4-6 escorts, sometimes more of both. They at times had an escort carrier along to provide air cover. In some areas long range flying boats and bombers provided air cover on a near constant basis as convoys transited the south china sea from Singapore to japan. These convoys were somewhat similar to Allied convoys in the Atlantic. Japanese even on a limited basis had "decoy" groups and others similar to the escort groups operated by Allies in the Atlantic, which sunk many u boats. USS Barb was lured in by one in August 1944, sinking the decoy ship, but then taking a determined counterattack by the escorts, including some "sleepers" who were hiding just over the horizon. A few decoy groups are now present in the campaign in 1944/45. Not every convoy will be organized same and not every will permit the tactic of going inside the convoy. Other factors such as a moonlight, sea state, etc are major factors in surface attacks as already were. Sometimes, you have to shoot from outside the screen or even go for submerged periscope attack (not so easy in TMO as the night optics now not standard until 1945, per history.) The "night periscope" is now the observation scope as it was most of the war, using my "Real Scopes" mod, it does transmit light better than the attack scope but still not easy to shoot with at night unless have some moonlight or are very close to target. Finally, seems the AI torpedo firing fleetboats participated in this one. I have some placed along convoy routes and a few set to appear on the scripted (non random) convoys with a 50 percent chance of spawning. So sometimes may have assistance, sometimes may not. Not long after attacking from inside a convoy on 17 November 1944....saw ship in far starboard column erupted in flames and escorts rush to the area. They began attacking a submerged submarine, firing with guns (one of the silly SH 4 things, they see submerged AI subs as surfaced)and depth charges when were close enough. South China Sea Area A2-East of Luzon. USS Besugo SS-321 2nd War Patrol. Full Report with screenshots. https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2751920 Last edited by Bubblehead1980; 06-10-21 at 04:25 PM.

06-11-21, 05:56 AM	#4
easy Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Where is he talking about...? As a non-English speaking SH4 player I don't exactly understand what Bubblehead1980 is talking about. Is he discussing a latest version of TMO here? Or maybe another MOD?

06-11-21, 02:28 PM	#7
easy Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Upgrade... Many thanks bb1980 for explaining. I'm looking forward for the upgrade...