[TEC] [REQ] 3d TDC in TMO for older boats

[Bubblehead1980]

Wondering if someone with the know how would incorporate the 3D TDC that the Gato/Balao/Tench/Tambor/Gar has into the Sargo/Salmon/Porpoise. Radar mod that comes with it would be great but understand if can't, but it really is a game changer, even "just" the 3d TDC with moving dials that actually reflects the target data, especially if playing without map contacts. Player can learn to read the dials and work real solutions on the 3D model in the conning tower.

There was plans to back when it was released but the creator of the mod is no longer active.

[razark]

You can edit the files to have older boats use the interior with the TDC. However, you lose the unique interior of the older boats.



Not exactly what you're asking for, but it is a quick option.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by razark

You can edit the files to have older boats use the interior with the TDC. However, you lose the unique interior of the older boats.



Not exactly what you're asking for, but it is a quick option.

I'd rather go along without the interiors as is since a lot of effort has been put in to make sure the boats are different for immersion purposes. I recall how stock boats all seemed them same for most part looks and performance wise. UBI really cut corners on the interiors, using the Balao for the Gato, Tambor, Tench, Gar, quite annoying, but I digress.

Vicker's really did wonderful job with the interior overhauls and I put a few touches on the Gato/Bala/Tambor/Gar/Tench (all use same interior files) 3D scopes being positioned correctly, the Gato ladder being positioned correctly. So now want to give some attention to Salmon/Sargo/Porpoise, and S boats.

Hoping someone with the knowledge, ability, and patience could incorporate the mod into the Salmon/Sargo/Porpoise as was done with the Gato etc. in TMO ,so have 3D TDC and Radar S boat the radar part, not sure about TDC as they did not have TDC's until much later.

[Nisgeis]

It was made as portable as possible. All of the 3D TDC should be under parent / child nodes, for easy portability, which means if you can import those nodes, you just have to position the one parent node and all the dials / markers under it will change position relative to the parent node. Much easier than modifying lots of different controllers.

The Range unit is a bit different though, as that is an additional model and would need to be imported and placed somewhere (in the later boats where the TDC is in the control tower, it goes between the TDC and the radar). In the Balao, it is between the Sonar Stack and the 'A' Scope. The 3D model for the radar scopes in stock, for whatever reason, had part of the sonar stack incorporated, so when I moved the radar rightwards (aft), it also moved one of the sonar buttons (send range maybe?), so I had to redo the sonar stack and radar models as well, which was a complete pain. This meant the sonar stack model and radar models had to be reimported into the .dat file and adjusted so the sonar buttons all 'belonged' to the sonar model - all because of a miscellaneous button. If you are not moving any models around, and ignoring the radar range unit, this should not be a problem.

The range unit is also set up in a parent / child manner, so moving the parent node moves all dependant nodes and you in theory only have to move one node. This a good thing, as there are literally thousands of extra nodes added to make the range dials all work. To make the range unit work though, I think you may have to add the 'Precision' mode, which requires an extra mode in the settings and some 3d model and texture updates., so probably the range unit is the most difficult to import.

Probably the easiest way to import the TDC only is to find the node for the TDC in any of the mods using S3D (a brilliant tool, without which the mod would never have been attempted and also which I thought I broke making this mod) and remove all the other nodes, then save that dat and then import it into the target dat and position it. I think the other boats had the TDC in the Control Room, not the Conning Tower, so, you should be able to import the parent node of the TDC into the CT dat and position it.

Unfortunately I don't have SH4 installed, or even a DVD drive to install it, but am available for moral support?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

It was made as portable as possible. All of the 3D TDC should be under parent / child nodes, for easy portability, which means if you can import those nodes, you just have to position the one parent node and all the dials / markers under it will change position relative to the parent node. Much easier than modifying lots of different controllers.

The Range unit is a bit different though, as that is an additional model and would need to be imported and placed somewhere (in the later boats where the TDC is in the control tower, it goes between the TDC and the radar). In the Balao, it is between the Sonar Stack and the 'A' Scope. The 3D model for the radar scopes in stock, for whatever reason, had part of the sonar stack incorporated, so when I moved the radar rightwards (aft), it also moved one of the sonar buttons (send range maybe?), so I had to redo the sonar stack and radar models as well, which was a complete pain. This meant the sonar stack model and radar models had to be reimported into the .dat file and adjusted so the sonar buttons all 'belonged' to the sonar model - all because of a miscellaneous button. If you are not moving any models around, and ignoring the radar range unit, this should not be a problem.

The range unit is also set up in a parent / child manner, so moving the parent node moves all dependant nodes and you in theory only have to move one node. This a good thing, as there are literally thousands of extra nodes added to make the range dials all work. To make the range unit work though, I think you may have to add the 'Precision' mode, which requires an extra mode in the settings and some 3d model and texture updates., so probably the range unit is the most difficult to import.

Probably the easiest way to import the TDC only is to find the node for the TDC in any of the mods using S3D (a brilliant tool, without which the mod would never have been attempted and also which I thought I broke making this mod) and remove all the other nodes, then save that dat and then import it into the target dat and position it. I think the other boats had the TDC in the Control Room, not the Conning Tower, so, you should be able to import the parent node of the TDC into the CT dat and position it.

Unfortunately I don't have SH4 installed, or even a DVD drive to install it, but am available for moral support?

First of all, glad to see you are still around and want to complement you on the 3TDC and Radar Range Mod, really a game change and in the top five mods of all time for SH 4. I play without map contacts or external camera probably 60 percent of the time with a lot of success and having an accurate, working radar, and the TDC to update the information is just awesome, something we should had from the get go, but really do appreciate hard work, it sounds like it was a real pain lol.


I looked of the files when was working on my TMO Update so have a vague idea of what you ae talking about lol. I would love to incorporate both radar range unit and 3D TDC into the Salmon/Sargo/Porpoise at some point, so thanks for the information and moral support.

Interesting you mention the TDC being in the control room of the older boats. My understanding is that the original TDC was a table top, like the fire control computers of surface ships and was in the control room as it would not fit in the conning tower, but skippers did not like it, since wanted the TDC in conning tower, close to them during attacks. So it was improved and redesigned and installed to fit in the conning tower. To my knowledge all of the Porpoise class boats kept their TDC in control room but the Salmon and Sargos had theirs moved to the conning tower eventually. I am sure some had it, some never did. In the sim, not sure where would put it in the control room without a major redesign.

[propbeanie]

The Porpoise:

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

First of all, glad to see you are still around and want to complement you on the 3TDC and Radar Range Mod, really a game change and in the top five mods of all time for SH 4.

Well, you helped to test it, so credit to yourself as well.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I play without map contacts or external camera probably 60 percent of the time with a lot of success and having an accurate, working radar, and the TDC to update the information is just awesome, something we should had from the get go, but really do appreciate hard work, it sounds like it was a real pain lol.

Would love to see some plots!

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I looked of the files when was working on my TMO Update so have a vague idea of what you ae talking about lol. I would love to incorporate both radar range unit and 3D TDC into the Salmon/Sargo/Porpoise at some point, so thanks for the information and moral support.

I'd start with the TDC and see if you can move it, the units are a bit arbitrary and you can move stuff so little it doesn't look like it has moved, or so far that it disappears outside of the model.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

<SNIP>To my knowledge all of the Porpoise class boats kept their TDC in control room but the Salmon and Sargos had theirs moved to the conning tower eventually. I am sure some had it, some never did. In the sim, not sure where would put it in the control room without a major redesign.

It just needs to go wherever the TDC model is in the dat file (shown in Propbeanie's screenshot above) - that's the important bit. All the TDC dials float over that existing model, so you just need to find it and position it. It's been a long time since I used S3D, but if you import it under the right node, it may even auto align to the right place (I think it's positioned relative to the parent?). The radar range unit would need to go to the left of the 'A' Scope, which is in the conning tower in all boats (I think). I don't think there is anything to the right of the 'A' Scope and the PPI scope, so they could be shifted over, but that's going to be a much bigger task that the TDC alone. The range unit looks simpler, but there's a lot of controllers and extra models in there (even in the places that don't look like anything has been added - like the CRT display of the 'A' scope screen).

The only other issue is you may need have is having a spare camera node to set as the TDC and a station to bind it to, not sure what I used in the mod and if you decide to do the range unit (later on!) you may need to widen the camera angle to get both the 'A' scope and range unit it.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Well, you helped to test it, so credit to yourself as well.



Would love to see some plots!



I'd start with the TDC and see if you can move it, the units are a bit arbitrary and you can move stuff so little it doesn't look like it has moved, or so far that it disappears outside of the model.



It just needs to go wherever the TDC model is in the dat file (shown in Propbeanie's screenshot above) - that's the important bit. All the TDC dials float over that existing model, so you just need to find it and position it. It's been a long time since I used S3D, but if you import it under the right node, it may even auto align to the right place (I think it's positioned relative to the parent?). The radar range unit would need to go to the left of the 'A' Scope, which is in the conning tower in all boats (I think). I don't think there is anything to the right of the 'A' Scope and the PPI scope, so they could be shifted over, but that's going to be a much bigger task that the TDC alone. The range unit looks simpler, but there's a lot of controllers and extra models in there (even in the places that don't look like anything has been added - like the CRT display of the 'A' scope screen).

The only other issue is you may need have is having a spare camera node to set as the TDC and a station to bind it to, not sure what I used in the mod and if you decide to do the range unit (later on!) you may need to widen the camera angle to get both the 'A' scope and range unit it.

Thanks for all the insight! Far as plots, I'll look to see if have some saved from my 14 patrols in the Drum (testing the TMO update, from start of war, well 1942 to end, tested Dec41-Mar 42 in diff career). If not, next time I am running one of the boats with the 3D TDC Radar mod, i'll make sure and save the plots from the patrol.