SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > General Topics
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2020, 12:30 PM   #8701
AVGWarhawk
Lucky Jack
 
AVGWarhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a 1954 Buick.
Posts: 26,551
Downloads: 90
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Quatro View Post
Pre-data before the flood, the earthquakes and the fires ... California needs America, Californian street people need America, Californian veterans need America.

Heck we all need America to be on the same wave length
And there is the rub. This great melting pot of a country has many wave lengths as a result of many cultures. In the past, immigrants came to America to seek the American dream. I think many still do. But there are also many that have a different dream. Unity is an archaic word with no meaning any longer.
__________________
“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
AVGWarhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:35 PM   #8702
August
Ugly American
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,519
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk View Post
And there is the rub. This great melting pot of a country has many wave lengths as a result of many cultures. In the past, immigrants came to America to seek the American dream. I think many still do. But there are also many that have a different dream. Unity is an archaic word with no meaning any longer.

I think the ease of modern communications has a lot to do with that.

It maintains ties with the old country that would have withered and broken far more quickly in earlier times. Back in the day immigrants were far more isolated from their home countries than they are now. Sure they could write snail mail letters to family and friends back home (assuming both sides could read and write) but that cost money and could take weeks to get a response.

Nowadays they just pick up their cell phone and they could be just down the street rather than on a different continent.

This coupled with the ease of modern transportation that turns a several week long arduous journey into a few hour long airplane ride and it's pretty clear that while the melting pot has not gone away completely yet it's temperature has been brought way down and I believe it will take increasingly longer for it to work it's magic.
August is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 06:40 PM   #8703
Skybird
Soaring
 
Skybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the mental asylum named Germany
Posts: 29,846
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Bernie sanders was briefed a month ago on Russia meddling with the American campaign circus again, trying to make Sanders the candiate and by that helping Trump for another term. The goal is clear: to increase the division in the Polarised States of America and by that pushing civil society further off balance, and securing a retard at the helm of the ship so that the US does not seriously get in Russia'sstrategic ways, and alienates itself ever further from Europe, leaving the latter isolated and weak on any real military relevance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/u...rs-russia.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-...a77_story.html
__________________
Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.– Hannah Arendt

Last edited by Skybird; 02-21-2020 at 07:42 PM.
Skybird is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 07:32 PM   #8704
August
Ugly American
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,519
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Are these the same anonymous intelligence officials that claimed Saddam had WMD?
August is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 07:42 PM   #8705
u crank
SubSim relic
 
u crank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 9,529
Downloads: 136
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird View Post
First Jake Tapper, Now Catherine Herridge Further Discredits NY Times’ Story About Russia Trying to Help Trump in 2020

Quote:
Even CNN’s Jake Tapper called it out in his reporting, citing a national security official source who he knew and trusted.
Quote:
Now CBS’ Catherine Herridge is debunking the report as well with her source. Herridge’s source said there was nothing to back up the claim, “briefers had none to offer.”
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/...trump-in-2020/
__________________
One cult is as good as another, and mood affiliation is a kind of faith.

Kevin D Williamson




u crank is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 08:20 PM   #8706
August
Ugly American
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,519
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The biggest damage the Russians can do to an American political candidate is to let it be thought that they might prefer them over their opposition. They are quite aware that their endorsement is toxic and that's why I think they are so clumsy about their meddling. A bunch of Twitter and Facebook accounts? Please. I would expect something far more sophisticated and effective from KGB Putin and company.

As for the Intelligence professional community I'm thinking that they need a serious purge. First off 17 agencies are way too many. Secondly they are becoming increasingly statist in their belief that they should be the ones in charge, not the elected officials they report to. That sentiment needs to be stamped out. The Intelligence Professional Community does not and should never be allowed to dictate policy.
August is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 04:00 AM   #8707
Hawk66
Samurai Navy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 541
Downloads: 34
Uploads: 0
Default

@August It was not just an "anonymous source" about WMD in Iraq. Government services and that includes the intelligence services as well are not immun against the wishes of the administration in rule. A very good example for this is the Able Archer crisis 1983, where the Soviet intelligence services really thought NATO would prepare a first atomic strike against their country.
And I guess who questions that the Bush administration "asked" the intellgence services to give them all possible "proofs" to justify the invasion into Iraq.
I do not think anybody thinks here the Trump administration asks the intelligence service for proof of the intervention of Russia in elections...

I hope you do not really question that Russia tries to manipulate elections in the West else I do not know how many proofs you need...starting with 2016 in your country, going to Brexit and also in my country. It is an open secret that Russia supports the very right and left wing of parties in Germany to destabilize it. Even the foreign secreatary of Russia took part at least once in the game, to fuel resintements against immigrants in Germany by publicly spreading fake news , with the goal of destabilizing and getting rid of chanellor Merkel in the long term, the prime target of the right wing and Russia.

I think that is the key difference during the cold war and now. In Europe and in the US regardless if you were a (moderate) lefty or righty and regardless of the (strong) different political views both sides had - we all shared a common set of values and would have never tolerated that those thing happened without strong consequences.

Unfortunately we have lost the compass...on both sides of the Atlantic. I guess with the death of Senator McCain the most prominent fighter for those values also died....
__________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein

Last edited by Hawk66; 02-22-2020 at 04:08 AM.
Hawk66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 05:58 AM   #8708
u crank
SubSim relic
 
u crank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 9,529
Downloads: 136
Uploads: 0


Default

There is a great irony here. Russians meddling in U.S. elections is constantly being aided by leaks in the American intellegence community. Those leaks always go to left wing news media outlets (latest were to NYT and Washington Post) and they always are politically motivated. There is no attempt to hide this and it should be seen for what it is. The people who are doing this have zero interest in the security of American elections. They should be exposed.
__________________
One cult is as good as another, and mood affiliation is a kind of faith.

Kevin D Williamson




u crank is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 06:56 AM   #8709
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 9,095
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Default

"Those leaks always go to left wing news media outlets." Says Fox News? Would they publish it and if it hit them in the face? Fox does not publish "news", it takes them from others and then adjusts them to their agenda.
Fox: No, Trump’s not angry. Yes, Trump’s angry. And it’s your fault for talking about it.
Fox News has responded to the news with a series of commentary that resembles the stages of grief: denial, then anger — plus some psychological projection — and no sign of acceptance. Don' let reality interfere with my opinion.

NSA reports that Russia is meddling with elections again, then:
"The day after the briefing was given, President Trump abruptly replaced his acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire, as a direct response to the briefing. The Post is less clear on the contents of the briefing, but the Times reports from five different sources that the briefing primarily concerned active Russian threats to election security."

Don't anger the elephant.
But there's a bright side, Germany gets rid of Grenell
__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.
Catfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:55 AM   #8710
August
Ugly American
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,519
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
"Those leaks always go to left wing news media outlets." Says Fox News? Would they publish it and if it hit them in the face?

You're claiming that Fox is ignoring leaks sent to them by the Intelligence Community? So you're trying to meddle in our politics again. How come your meddling is always left wing? Oh that's right, like the these anonymous Deep State criminals you have a political axe to grind.
August is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:02 AM   #8711
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 9,095
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Default

Wait, don't turn this around again.

u crank wrote that only left wing media get the information about leaks.
I said Fox would ignore it anyway.
And the anonymous deep state trying to harm Trump, isn't that a left conspiracy?
__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.
Catfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:26 AM   #8712
August
Ugly American
 
August's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19,519
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Wait, don't turn this around again.

u crank wrote that only left wing media get the information about leaks.
I said Fox would ignore it anyway.
Well it seems to me that he is right. These leaks are never designed to help the President which is why they always given to the leftist media who the leakers know will take whatever they say as fact without question. On the other hand Fox talks about these leaks every time just as soon as they crop up (albeit more critically) so your claim they ignore them is simply wrong.

Quote:
And the anonymous deep state trying to harm Trump, isn't that a left conspiracy?
The deep state isn't right or left. It is all about them increasing their control over the nation. They are happy to espouse any cause, right or left, that helps them achieve this objective and they are quite willing to try and take down any politician like Trump that opposes them.
August is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 10:38 AM   #8713
Mr Quatro
Silent Hunter
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4,920
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0


Default



Liberal and left wingers take note that this is exactly what Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and the followers of other liberal democrats want from free college tuitions, to free borders to free health care to smaller military to fill in the blanks ______________.

They want us to share in their suffering and put up an umbrella for all

When it works in Cuba let me know
__________________
pla•teau noun
a relatively stable level, period,
or condition a level of attainment
or achievement

Lord help me get to the next plateau ..


Mr Quatro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 11:22 AM   #8714
u crank
SubSim relic
 
u crank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 9,529
Downloads: 136
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
NSA reports that Russia is meddling with elections again, ...
This whole thing is becoming a joke and the person who is laughing his head off is Putin. First off you have the American intelligence agencies full of Obama holdovers and proud Resistance types. Second you have a very compliant left wing news media full of gulible hall monitor types who all hate Trump. "What to do" says Putin? Oh I know, lets let these intelligence agencies believe that we are going to interfere in the 2020 election. Not hard to do. These people feed their opposites false information all the time. Then the Resistance/neverTrumpers leak that to the easily excited types at CNN who never check sources and presto....everyone is running around with their hair on fire and Putin is smoking a cigar and sipping his vodka.

That rational clear thinking people can't see this is a mystery to me.
__________________
One cult is as good as another, and mood affiliation is a kind of faith.

Kevin D Williamson




u crank is online   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 11:35 AM   #8715
Dowly
It's an alpaca, ok?
 
Dowly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 24,507
Downloads: 26
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by u crank View Post
That rational clear thinking people can't see this is a mystery to me.
Rational clear thinking people see that it has been proven multiple times that Russia sought to influence voters in 2016 elections and from that it is not a great leap of faith to believe that they would do it again. After all, if there's one country where creating division and spreading false information via social media works it's the US.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
biden , clinton , obama , politics , trump , twitter

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2020 Subsim