A request for future modding (GWX4)

[karamazovnew]

My first post, yey! I can't believe it's took me so long to actually register and start posting. I feel like I have alot to say so forgive my long introduction or just skip to the requests I know that there are topics out there on this issue, and I've read them and got lost in them too. And I have too much to write so I'll just start this thread.

Hi everybody, I've been playing SH3 and browsing this forum for over 3 years now and I must thank a lot of you modders (OLC, Mikhayl, Hitman and GWX team most of all) out there for making that game such an immersive experience. I live in Romania and had some college buddies who worked as game-testers for SH4. I was so excited when SH4 came that I almost felt like crying when I saw the end result. Years have past, in which the gap between SH3 and SH4 grew even larger for me, especially after the U-boat addon. And recently we recieved new addons for SH3 which brought that game even more close to perfection. Gone are the days when my SJGME screen was full of mods and I now use only 2: GWX3 and ACM v1.1.0. I play without visible interface, I have a cardboard Wiz-weel and I use voice commands. In short, it's as real as it gets.

Well, a short while ago I finnaly saw Das Boot and following a link on IMDB i found the movie "Run Silent Run Deep". I was amazed at the level of detail regarding procedures and equipment that this movie had so I decided to dust off the SH4 box and try again. I've tried it with TMO and RFB, both American and German campaigns. The American campaign felt like playing a shooting gallery and the German one, well, impossible to play because of the interface. I don't want to compare the 2 games, and I don't want to make SH4 more like SH3. I understand the strengths and weaknesses of both games and I just hope that SH4 can be turned into a better game by mods. Since most eyes are on the GWX team now, I'd like to share with them my wishes. Just in case they don't want to mess with the interface, or it is impossible because of game build method (i guess resolutions and aspect ratios might be a big problem for the modders), then I'm wasting your time

1. The interface (copy-paste ACM interface ):
- Free camera: i found the "always-free" camera used in TMO and RFB to be annoying at times as long as one cannot restrict the up-down movement or use collisions. Moving away from the standard positions makes clickable items behave weird. Can the SHIFT-F2 comand be rewritten to allow movement in every screen on-demand? If so, can you also reset the camera every time you switch stations? I hate staring at the ceiling when I go back to the Command Room. Also, a true "last camera" command for the right mouse blutton would be a godsent.
- Lower interface: The dials are useful, but I like looking around in my camera view to see the dials mounted on the walls when i just want to check them. If they could be clickable too, that would be amazing. A button to make the mini-clocks on the interface dissapear would be nice (OLC style). Even more, I'd get rid of the digital speed and course info in the interface.
- Too many buttons: I always go from button to button to check tooltips and loose many seconds to find what I need. The SH3 system ( each officer with his own set) was way better. Can it be copied? The icons and the "pressed"-"unpressed"-"disabled" colors are too confusing.
- Lenses: no magic optic bearing display on lenses, or zoom value, just the original markings please. The Uboat addon has no markings whatsoever which is pathetic. And did the americans really have such a nice 2-mirror periscope? Feels like a cheat when you get range readings. The separate bearing zone on the periscope screen in ACM is brilliant. One might even use a clever tga to simulate the actual marks on the metal.
- TDC input is nice, notepad input has got to go. Don't get me started about the speed reseting to zero issue. What were they thinking? In SH3, just reading the angle marks, I never need to target something to get a virtual firing solution. It isn't coded, it just fools the system a bit and feels real. Having to target something makes SH feel like World of Warcraft ("You have no target").
- Uboats need the TDC and Torpedo Settings on the periscopes screen, just like the american subs. It's nice to hide them (especially at night), but I need them there.
- Chronometer on the interface, ANYWHERE. Dragable-Clickable type. Maybe even one with predefined length scales for speed (for meters and feet ofc).
- An overhaul for the Ship ID manual: want it to feature ship legth and even aspect ratio at 90AOB. The ability to hide certain countries and ships (most ships there cost less than a torpedo). And maybe a copy of my favourite feature of the ACM mod, a mouse-over button with a quick reference for the most common ships, maybe even customizable by modifying the tga in photoshop. And since we are here, a list of all the ships in the game with all possible information (not the pictures), if possible even RPM-speed tables.
- Attack Map: does anyone use it apart from setting the torpedo speed to fast (uboats only ofc)? A full view of the TDC is a much nicer idea. Same for the american boats, that panel full of dials looks more impressive than a useless map.
- Navigation Map: I've seen in the manual that you can change the Marks text. HOW? It would be nice to have them show the time you put them there, like on the contact reports. I use my map to plot relative bearings and firing solution, far from my actual sub. A dropdown table of speeds and ranges would be invaluable.
- Radio-Radar view: any solve for that weird camera rotation?
- Sonar View: A volume knob on american subs would be nice.
- WIZ-wheel!!!!!: American and German versions. Those things are amazing and a clever system of enabling and rotating the entire outer disk (i don't like looking upside down at the monitor) would be awesome. Yes, I know they use the actual TDC data entry clocks, but that's no problem in SH3. Manual input with aditional button (OLC/ACM style) does the trick.

2. Game-Mechanics: I'm not a history buff so I don't really care for that certain ship to be in that place at that time because my gradfather's neighbour saw it there and then.

- But I care about wasted time traveling from Pearl to Tokio. Placing an arbitrary point on the map to start and end your patrol (with proper fuel usage and time of travel ofc) would win us a lot of time. An outside executable to visually place that virtual base position wouldn't be that hard to make, right?
- Well defended ports: In one patrol I sneaked a fish in a destroyer's toilet and then I surfaced and went to play tenis in 3 rich ports. No japs anywhere, I even tried to knock at their doors with my deck gun. In frustration I scratched their 20-some boats parked outside (80k tons worth in all). I'd like to see the look on their faces when they come back from China or whatever. Forgive my ironic tone (and Hontouni Sumimasen for calling you fellas japs) but that patrol made me wonder why I couldn't just pull in at the dock and plant the stars and stripes on that island. Why even bother attacking convoys? In reality they would've swam to my sub and unscrew my bolts with katanas
- German voices, pleeeaaase. I know they've been done, I just want to make sure they're all in one package. To the game's credit, the english voices and effects are great buuut.... I yell my voice commands in german and i get the feeling that they don't understand me or they'll think I'm a german spy
- More powerful guns, lower accuracy. One on one i can beat any destroyer out there. How come they miss me while I give them gun-shots (joke for head-shots, nevermind). In 4 rounds i leave them disarmed and then feed their captain lead. Too bad it takes me the rest of my ammo to sink the ghost ship.
- And really, why do they present me their bow so fast, where they only have 1 gun? Didn't "Run Silent Run Deep" (the movie) teach them anything? And I've had a destroyer blow itself up in shallow waters trying to dislodge me from his props. And that was after I scrached his underside with my trusty ChuckNorris Periscope. That thing could flood the Titanic and still be without a scratch. The conning touwer however, was bleeding red paint and was completely flooded (crew didn't seem to mind the bath though).
- A bit more realistic sensor detection range. If I can hear it, my crew can too. In GWX3 i had a zoom-dead in 1 second experience at 1024x time. At least put a 1x break in the game when a ship comes into sonar range. It would simulate a little tap on the back from the sonar guy. "Uhmm sir, is this bulb supposed to light up like that?"
- This one will seem weird but, here it goes: Remove sub from map completely. Remove course plot button and coresponding buttons from the navigation tab. When the boat is on the surface and the weather is fine (night, crew can man the deck gun) the navigator shoud be able to plot a contact report on the map with the current position of the sub using sextant, radar or just coin-toss, whatever (maybe as a circle with a certain radius, like 10-20 km). That would require a dead reckoning navigation type. Keep course for 6 hours, then go to 1x, turn to course 345 and keep it for 24 hours, go to 1x, and so on. U plot the course by lines not waypoints. Why? Well, it's like this, I always have the feeling that i'm tied to that bloody map. The whole game looses that 3D sailing feeling, and you loose the daunting but fun ability to get lost. Every attack u make and every tenis match with a destroyer would leave you with the question "Ok, that's done. Now where the hell am I?" feeling adding a new dimension to the game. I'm not a star lover so I don't want to learn astronomy, but if I can make a trip in FSX in pitch dark through mountains with no radio, I sure can drive a sub without Chuck Norris GPS.
- Ok, I admit, I've never had the patience to test this since I do most of my attacks on the surface. Just want to make sure it's in the final pack: need to use a bit of speed to keep the boat underwater, otherwise I surface like Elmer in a Looney Toons with a destroyer saying "What's up, Sub?" in cannon morse code (heavy metal remix). Thank you.
- And of course, a full atlantic campaign (yes, i know, the series 2 and 7 would not make it in), then I'd uninstall SH3 But i guess that's the whole point of GWX 4 right?

Well, just in case they're doable, a small executable with options, SHCommander style, would allow all to choose their settings and play style .


That's about it, thanks for reading. By the way, where's the "SH5 wishlist" thread? I've got a ton of fresh ideas.

[Sailor Steve]

Don't have many answers, but WELCOME ABOARD!

The only one I can really address is the 'virtual base' idea. I think it's a good one, even though I would never use it. SH1 always started you in your patrol zone, with appropriate reduction in fuel and a line on the guage to tell you when you needed to teleport home. I like the long weary hours of travel, even at high TC, but I recognize that I'm not much like anybody else. Yes, I think that's a great idea.

[FIREWALL]

Welcome

I'm not sure why you feel the 2 and 7 would be neglected?

[karamazovnew]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by privateer

I'm not sure why you feel the 2 and 7 would be neglected?

Don't get me wrong, I love the 7s and I've seen screenshots with 3D models of it for SH4. But to make a sub from scratch takes an enormous amount of work and expertise. I'd rather have a perfect 9s asap .

That Silent Hunter 5 Wishlist?
is here somewhere

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Thanks guys.

But to make a sub from scratch takes an enormous amount of work and expertise.

Stick around and pay close attention to the few gifted modders here. Generally people have found that to adequately improve on the models in SH3/SH4, starting from scratch is the best way.

I'm sure 100% original & accurate models will eventually get released.

[AVGWarhawk]

When you have a person creating this from scratch:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=757

Just about anything is possible

And here's the Type II.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...18#post1000418

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

When you have a person creating this from scratch:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=757

Just about anything is possible

I work in Maya too, so I understand very well the incredible ammount of work that Tomy has put into it. He beats me by far any day. I too have modded everything from planes in FSX, to horses in Oblivion. I love modding but i hate it when the potential is blocked by hard coding. I've played for a while with S3D and I absolutely love it. But I've tried for weeks to block the vertical movement of the free camera (not to mention collisions). One thing I really hate about the cameras is that i can't make the Periscope views switch to interior views on right-click.
So what I'm trying to say is that I can't overestimate the possibilities of you gifted modders, even though I surely don't underestimate your ability either . Tomy's interior models deserve more than just being glued to the interior mesh and I surely hope Ubisoft either gives us more powerfull tools for scripting (Bethesda style) or makes the SH5 more userfriendly and more powerful from the start. Or both .

But to go back to my interface questions, are those things possible? They've been done for SH3 so what I should've asked was "is there anything that makes them impossible to do in SH4?". After I finish my exams I'll surely start picking the SH4 interface bit by bit but I'd rather know now. From what I've seen, the menu.ini and the cameras.dat are preety much the same for both versions (apart from the *.DDS files). So I can't see the reason why OLC or Mikhayl would not port their interfaces for the german subs of SH4. So maybe you guyz know something...

EDIT: Wow, ok I retract my "yes, i know, the series 2 and 7 would not make it in" statement