Countdown for a new system

[Skybird]

Any advise, tips, warnings, comments would be appreciated. Would be nice to get especially my questions addressed - which sometimes proves to be difficult at subsim...

After having considered it repeatedly in the past 3 years, I am about to get a new system, and this time I am serious, and it is already decided - mid-March will be the time. I plan to keep my monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer and scanner, plus CH HOTAS, wheel and all that hardware stuff. I further plan to invest not more than 750 Euros for both a system and Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium or Professional. That depends on whether or not I expect to have use for the XP mode or not. Well - have I?

It will be an Intel-basing system with dual cores, I am thinking about an i5 with 2x3.2 or 2x3.33 GHz, that seems to be a range with a reasonable bang-for-the-buck score - or not? No need for quad cores, I lack the software supporting it, and I do not buy latest action games needing them.

What's more, 4 GB RAM shall do for my needs - which is older software that I list below. Is there any point for me in getting more, considering that software?

nVidia GFX board for me. Must not be top notch, but a reasonable price. Shall be not worse than my current 7950. Maybe a GTX460 - is that considered a fair and economic deal currently?

Have sound cards disappeared in recent years? It seems onboard sound no longer is a problem for the system, like it often was 8 years ago!?

I need USB ports, and not just 2 or 3. A good hub.

Quietness would be nice if it is within the budget.

Solid cooling.

Looks, LED tower gimmicks etc: no need and no desire for that. Will not pay for artwork on the tower and electric eye candy.

Anything special I should take care of, or watch out for? Reliability and a long endurance of the components is what I am looking after. Any especially recommendable mainboard, or nice sales offers for comp0lete ready-systems that meet my criteria that you happen to know about IN GERMANY ?

Beside the obvious driver stuff, I for the main will run MS Office 2003 (especially Words 2003), if possible Paint Shop Pro 9, and the following games, not all of them necessarily, but maybe I will reinstall some of them when I am in a sentimental mood - as far as I found out at Google, they all have been managed to get running under Windows 7, but some maybe with problems for some users:

FS9 + addons (problems for some people)
Falcon 4 AF (pfsp)
Oblivion(pfsp)
SBP-PE
Medieval 2
ArmA2
Fallout 3
Danube Front '85
WinSPMBT
TOAW3
SH3
GTR2
Richard Burns Rally
Nascar 2003 Papyrus (pfsp)
Sim City 4 (pfsp)
TDU
Schach etc

Am I missing any possible disappointments there?

[Skybird]

I also consider to install a dual-boot: in case of a 500 GB HD: Windows 7 with 380 GB, and a smaller 120 GB partition with XP for games that may not work otherwise, especially FS9 on my mind.

Does that XP partition also include all XP-run software like FS9, or can it also run sodftware on the other (W7) partitions? Does the AntiVir, Firewall etc that I install on one of the W7 partitions also pürotect software that operates under the XP installation? If not and all guards must be installed on both XP and W7 partition, what about the license keys then? Do they work with two installations on one machine?

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Any advise, tips, warnings, comments would be appreciated. Would be nice to get especially my questions addressed - which sometimes proves to be difficult at subsim...

After having considered it repeatedly in the past 3 years, I am about to get a new system, and this time I am serious, and it is already decided - mid-March will be the time. I plan to keep my monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer and scanner, plus CH HOTAS, wheel and all that hardware stuff. I further plan to invest not more than 750 Euros for both a system and Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium or Professional. That depends on whether or not I expect to have use for the XP mode or not. Well - have I?

It will be an Intel-basing system with dual cores, I am thinking about an i5 with 2x3.2 or 2x3.33 GHz, that seems to be a range with a reasonable bang-for-the-buck score - or not? No need for quad cores, I lack the software supporting it, and I do not buy latest action games needing them.

What's more, 4 GB RAM shall do for my needs - which is older software that I list below. Is there any point for me in getting more, considering that software?

nVidia GFX board for me. Must not be top notch, but a reasonable price. Shall be not worse than my current 7950. Maybe a GTX460 - is that considered a fair and economic deal currently?

Have sound cards disappeared in recent years? It seems onboard sound no longer is a problem for the system, like it often was 8 years ago!?

I need USB boards, and not just 2 or 3. A good hub.

Quietness would be nice if it is within the budget.

Solid cooling.

Looks, LED tower gimmicks etc: no need and no desire for that. Will not pay for artwork on the tower and electric eye candy.

Anything special I should take care of, or watch out for? Reliability and a long endurance of the components is what I am looking after. Any especially recommendable mainboard, or nice sales offers for comp0lete ready-systems that meet my criteria that you happen to know about IN GERMANY ?

Beside the obvious driver stuff, I for the main will run MS Office 2003 (especially Words 2003), if possible Paint Shop Pro 9, and the following games, not all of them necessarily, but maybe I will reinstall some of them when I am in a sentimental mood - as far as I found out at Google, they all have been managed to get running under Windows 7, but some maybe with problems for some users:

FS9 + addons (problems for some people)
Falcon 4 AF (pfsp)
Oblivion(pfsp)
SBP-PE
Medieval 2
ArmA2
Fallout 3
Danube Front '85
WinSPMBT
SH3
GTR2
Richard Burns Rally
Nascar 2003 Papyrus (pfsp)
Sim City 4 (pfsp)
TDU
Schach etc

Am I missing any possible disappointments there?

Dungeon Keeper,Dungeon Keeper 2 CLASSIC

[Sailor Steve]

@ Skybird: I'm about a month behind you for getting a new computer, and I'm having the same dilemma about what it's going to look like.

@ Vendor: Why do feel the need to quote an entire long post just so you can write one line?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

@ Skybird: I'm about a month behind you for getting a new computer, and I'm having the same dilemma about what it's going to look like.

We could help each other by job sharing then. I get a system, and you do the pay.

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

@ Vendor: Why do feel the need to quote an entire long post just so you can write one line?

I even wonder about the purpose of that one line!? Dungeon Keeper...? Wrong thread, maybe?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

We could help each other by job sharing then. I get a system, and you do the pay.

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.

Well, you know me. I know so little about the subject I was thinking of taking a hacksaw and some superglue to the hard drive...

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.

IIRC,

You install the oldest version of Windows first on one of the partitions,
then you install the other version of Windows on the other partition.
Both Windows installments create entries in the boot.ini file so when you boot up your computer a screen should appear where you can select which of the windows version you want to launch.

as for the card, the Nvidia 460 is still a good deal for the price.

HunterICX

[Herr-Berbunch]

The price of hard drives now is such that I wouldn't bother partitioning, you may as well get two, one for Win7 and one for XP - if you really need it. I run some older games just fine on Win7 and by disabling UAC I have no issues with running programs.

Good luck to you both. (Not that you'll need it!)

[the_tyrant]

My advice (I just built a new system):

Big hard drives are a great idea. I bought a 3tb drive for 199$, while a 1 tb drive is like 150$. The cost per gb goes down as the size of drive goes up.

4 cores are a good idea. Its barely more expensive than a duel core processor. and the performance increase is quite noticeable.

Also, build for the future. Get a good stable rig that can be upgraded.

[Skybird]

Well, let's figure out how dual boot system work. I understand you install the old Windows first on a small partition, and the newest on the main partition, which also should be the first partition. You install the old Windows first because some booting sequence file gets overwritten by the second installation, and if that second installation is the older Windows you barely use, then the modern Windows you want to use in the main is - does... well, what? Don't i get a selection screen anyway?

I plan separate partitions for the swap file also (to be able to defrag it by simply format that partition), a separate partition for the FS9 (around 40 GB with all my addon stuff), and a small one for chess, because the database can create certain complications with the system restore function if it is not switched of for the partition the chess software is on. And then there is the main partition for data files and all software. Plus first partition with W7, and another one for XP, a small one.

Now, how does each of the two windows interact with installed software, may it be games, may it be internet and antivirus? Do I need to install every game I want to use for the "not dominant" OS (XP in this case) on the same partition that XP is on, so that that software only can be run with XP, and not from W7?

Or is all software installed on a separate partition different from W7 and XP, but both OS are crosslinked and will interact with all software that is installed, so that every program in theory would be accessible from any of the two OS?

What about the updating of the OS, or better: the updating of any software that is coming in different versions depending on the OS you use? Let's think there is software X that is available for PX, and in a different version for Vista, and W7. I want to use it with XP, and installed it in that version. But 90% of the time I operate under W7. How is it getting updates? W7 version? XP version? Only updating when booting XP?

I think it comes down to whether the software pool is fully accessible for any of the two OS, or needs a strict separation for each of the two OS. But what is about a virus-scanner and firewall, then? I run FS9 under XP, for example, and need protection when getting live weather data. Do I need to do two virus scanner installations - one relating to XP,. the other under W7? when I install a game under any of the two OS, will it get recognised and be accessible from any of the two OS? Or is it automatically linked to the OS under which it was installed?

Can both OS use the same swap file partition? If not, can one partition then house two swap files, one for each of the OS?

Sorry, this may sound funny, but I have a hard time to figure this stuff out, via Google I just find that everybody seems to know how it works and thus it does not get explained. I just never had to do with this matter before. Get this dual-boot-novice at my end of the wire enlighted, please.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

My advice (I just built a new system):

Big hard drives are a great idea. I bought a 3tb drive for 199$, while a 1 tb drive is like 150$. The cost per gb goes down as the size of drive goes up.

But a 500 GB drive for 50 bucks still is even cheaper. And I do not need even that much. I simply do not need it, I do not buy new games in truckload amounts anymore.

4 cores are a good idea. Its barely more expensive than a duel core processor. and the performance increase is quite noticeable.

How is that? None of the games I plan to use is new and supports multiple cores. As I said, I have almost no interest in new stuff. So I think I am better off with investing into two cores with for example 3.3 GHz than into 4 cores with 2.8 GHz. Since my sims use one CPU only anyway, that leaves the game running with 3.3 instead of 2.8 GHz, and background processes on the other CPU. Core 3 and 4 would be of no use for me, or not!?

Also, build for the future. Get a good stable rig that can be upgraded.

Yes, absolutely. I would welcome USB 3 connectors, for example, for faster USB stick handling. Additional space for RAM, if I ever would need it (which I still doubt). But beyond that - I wonder what kind of "upgrade" in hardware I could need. Again, I do not buy software anymore like I used to buy in the past. Estimating that W7 will be supported for another 8-10 years, I think that is the amount of time the new if should hold out.

And in ten years it is possible that my interest in computer games has become so specialized and small (chess, cosims), that maybe I would prefer something in the style of a notebook then. If that still is available then.

FS9 can use more hardware than I currently have. But all other sims I mentioned already probably are served with hardware overkill capacities by my new system.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

The price of hard drives now is such that I wouldn't bother partitioning, you may as well get two, one for Win7 and one for XP - if you really need it. I run some older games just fine on Win7 and by disabling UAC I have no issues with running programs.

What is UAC?

Good luck to you both. (Not that you'll need it!)

I am confident, I maintain the notebook of my mother with Vista since 2 years, and hate it, and since two months I maintain another notebook of a friend of hers, with Windows 7, and I like it. So the new OS is not all that new anymore. But still there are details I probably don't know, since I had no need to investigate them since he does not need them, but I will need them due to different needs of mine.

P.S. BTW, a pure Windows 7 partition, will 32 GB enoiugh in nsize, considering future Windows upgrades, SPs and system restore points?

P.P.S. I noted with enthusiasm that W7 since the first time ever features a volume cloning function, like Acronis for example. That way I can form an image of the full HD installatrions onto another, separate HD. Does that function in W7 work reliable, or are you still better off with using separate software for that?

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Skybird

What is UAC?

User account control
the popup asking you if you actually want to do something or not

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Skybird

But a 500 GB drive for 50 bucks still is even cheaper. And I do not need even that much. I simply do not need it, I do not buy new games in truckload amounts anymore.

Same here. I download a huge amount of music these days, but that's what I have an external drive for.

How is that? None of the games I plan to use is new and supports multiple cores. As I said, I have almost no interest in new stuff. So I think I am better off with investing into two cores with for example 3.3 GHz than into 4 cores with 2.8 GHz. Since my sims use one CPU only anyway, that leaves the game running with 3.3 instead of 2.8 GHz, and background processes on the other CPU. Core 3 and 4 would be of no use for me, or not!?

Interesting questions. I think I'd like to have as many cores as I can afford, but the GHz question puzzles me as well.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

as many cores as I can afford, but the GHz question puzzles me as well.

Software needs to explcitly support 2 or 4 cores, else one and the same workload of one core only gets equzally distriubuted amongst the avialable cores. Instread mof one core being on duty to 80% you then have 4 cores each of them being busy at 20%. To have all four cores running at 80% and getting the speed boost from that, you need softweare supporting that.

Thnat'S why modewrn chess engines nowadays get released in two versions: single core versions at around 40-50 Euros, and multiple core versions at around 80-100 Euros. Its the same engine, but optimised for several cores.

FS9 is single core only. You cannot get around that. You only get a GHz-independant speed boost from the fact that two processors for example allow you to have one CPU running Windows and background tasks, leaving the other free for fully calculating in the service of FS9.

That's why I prefer 2 high GHz processors over 4 CPUs with lower GHz.