[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Drakken]

- Just to double-check = you do not have the high CO2 warning?

Negative, I was able to surface.

- You do not have wounded crew in the control room or conning tower?

No wounded crew in either my control room or conning tower. When giving orders with the rudder I would receive confirmation ("" degrees to port/starboard) but the boat would not follow.

- You do not show any damage on the F7 screens?

No critical section was labelled in red or damaged on the left list of the F7 screen.

- No flooding?

Minor flooding in the aft torpedo room during the attack, which was quickly repaired with the water pumped out by the damage crew.

Nothing showing needing repair ("Repair team priority" box), nothing lit "red"?

Only minor damage to my deck and AA guns, which were repaired after a few hours on surface.

I'm not sure what you can do if your rudder is gone (it should show as damaged), other than abandon the career, because as you say, there is no "Abandon ship!" command...

I decided to reboot to my previous save, and tested to see if my rudder was still working so I continued from there. If it is not a bug, the only thing I can see is that a stray bullet or a depth charge damaged some undetectable gasket or wire which disconnected my rudder from the rest of the control system.

[propbeanie]

Welllll... the damage sub-system (purposeful play on words there) is a "deep" (and again - sorry, won't happen again, until the next time) subject, and is most likely beyond my "depth" of understanding (I can't stop, sorry)... but we'll give it a go, and try some comparisons between stock and a few mods, and see if I can notice anything that isn't at the least tied to a visible "damage", whether repairable or not. At the least, to know that it's damaged... I do remember reading about this, and I'm wondering if it was mentioned in Traveller's mod - but the details are elusive...

[Immelmann]

Originally Posted by Drakken

HELP! I am no longer able to use my rudder!!!

I was able to get out of a sticky situation against an escort, in which I withstood some minor damage to my engines which are fixed now. However, with no other visible damage I am just going straight into the Japanese mainland without being able to turn my ship left or right!

I tried everything - hard port, hard starboard, return to course, minor changes of course to rudder, saving and reloading, everything... but nothing improves. I have no other visible damage to anything else in the control room.

Plus, I am unable to abandon ship so I am at lost of what I can do.

Assuming you have the free camera enabled, go look and see if you actually have a rudder. I've had mine blown off a few times now. No red damage label for that one. So it can take you by surprise. Had to abandon a couple of careers due to that happening. Once, however, I scored what I consider a partial success. Unable to steer my choice was forward to Tokyo or reverse to the northern coast of New Guinea. I chose New Guinea and even sunk a Japanese merchant with the deck gun on the way there. Arrived New Guinea and scuttled the boat just off shore. From there it would have been a six month wait in the jungle for my crew until that piece of land was taken away from the Japanese. So I considered that a win in that my crew made landfall and did not end up in a watery grave. It would be nice to have separate control over port and starboard propeller speed. That should make the boat somewhat steerable. I think this would have been possible in real life.

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by Immelmann

Assuming you have the free camera enabled, go look and see if you actually have a rudder. I've had mine blown off a few times now. No red damage label for that one. So it can take you by surprise. Had to abandon a couple of careers due to that happening. Once, however, I scored what I consider a partial success. Unable to steer my choice was forward to Tokyo or reverse to the northern coast of New Guinea. I chose New Guinea and even sunk a Japanese merchant with the deck gun on the way there. Arrived New Guinea and scuttled the boat just off shore. From there it would have been a six month wait in the jungle for my crew until that piece of land was taken away from the Japanese. So I considered that a win in that my crew made landfall and did not end up in a watery grave. It would be nice to have separate control over port and starboard propeller speed. That should make the boat somewhat steerable. I think this would have been possible in real life.

The no indicator rudder damage has happened to me in several past mods. Nothing you can do. It seems impossible to to mod separate shaft controls so you better hope you have a fairly recent save.

[merc4ulfate]

:Skip to the OK something odd



I have been away for a while on vacation and family emergency so I do not know if this was spoken about.

Clean install, LAA, JSGME, FOTRSU .90 RC2

The aircraft are now blind. I can past within 800 sometimes even 500 yards and not be seen by aircraft. I might get an attack pass maybe 1 out of 30 passes.

I am liking the shipping, routes, but somethings are a bit odd.

Not just the aircraft.

I recently got the Gar but it came with no surface radar at Feb 43. I went on patrol and came back to be offered IMPROVED surface radar. Seemed odd I did not have the radar then got the IMPROVED version first.

Gar and Tambor both seem to have graphics issues with the dive planes. I have seen this before in past versions. The support post poke through the planes as well as through the main deck. Almost like they are installed backwards. Maybe Starboard on port or something. It all functions just a graphical issue.

I came back with 149,000+ tonnes in my first Gar Patrol.

I had done 108,000 tonnes in a Sargo.

The fluctuating dud rate I find entertaining. I have gone out with only one dud in a load out and then gone out and had 25-40% duds. I like the not knowing.

Great mod as always. Thank you all for your work.

OK something odd

I downloaded the latest version again. Unzipped it and there is was the subfolder for the new version says 100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v0.90_RC2_PublicBe ta_EN
While the parent folder says

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v0.90_RC3_PublicBeta_EN

Is this a typo or did the new release not get entered correctly in the download section?

[merc4ulfate]

Request.

Add Capt Scruvy's installation instructions to the Read me highlighted INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.

I read everything but that and I think the instructions he gave in this thread somewhere would help anyone avoid installation mistakes without having to find his instructions in this 500+ page thread.

This is what I was referring to. I have not seen in it in a single read me file of any installation but I think it would help future installers to avoid issues.

From Capt Scurvy:


As we await the next release...…"Ultimate Edition v0.81 RC1 Public Beta" (should be anytime now), there are a few things every player should do to make sure their Stock game is ready.

1. Run JSGME's "Compare game files to snapshot" feature from it's "Tasks..." menu (found in the center of the JSGME main page). Your Stock game files should be exactly as they were when you first took that "Snapshot" way back when you first installed the game, with JSGME added. YOU DID TAKE A "SNAPSHOT" DIDN"T YOU?!?!

If NOT?!? Reinstall the game and this time with a clean install..... take one!! How will you know your game isn't corrupt by mod/file changing if you don't have a reference to go back to? JSGME has a README explaining what to do.....READ IT and follow the instructions.

2. Delete your "Documents/SH4" folder before running the game with the new "Ultimate Edition v0.81 RC1 Public Beta" added. You'll have to reset your game Options/Graphics setting for your specific monitor resolution, exit the game, and restart for the resolution to take effect. But, that's a small price to pay for insuring your Stock game is ready for the changes "Ultimate" will bring to the game.

Don't use any of your old saved games, let any new saves be made from a clean start with the latest edition added. Old saved games will not run correctly with the newer files from "Ultimate v0.81".....don't use them! By deleting the previous SH4 folder, you're deleting those older saves and setting up your game with a fresh start. Do this now, and do it anytime you think there's trouble with corruption to the Stock game files.

3. By all means, follow the guidance from "Windows10; Large Address Aware; SH4 Install" if you have a newer computer than Windows XP, and have more than 3 gigs of RAM memory!!

[YellowFin]

Hello, friendly bug report here:

1. No sound from British merchant on Dec 17, 1941 at 01:16 in Celeb Sea, near Maju Island. Sonar man can hear him.
2. CDT after dive bomber attack two days later further north. Dove, but got struck by bomb. After submerged repairs CDT when zooming out on nav map.

Mod list:

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v0.90_RC3_PublicBe ta_EN
PE4_Final
Bigger Better Protractors
Webster's S-Class Mod for v1.4 & v1.5

Fresh steam install, LAA
I'm also using shSpeech255

Question unrelated to bugs: Can real navigation work with FOTRSU?

Greetings and thanks to all the tireless modders and testers.

[merc4ulfate]

Originally Posted by YellowFin

Hello, friendly bug report here:

1. No sound from British merchant on Dec 17, 1941 at 01:16 in Celeb Sea, near Maju Island. Sonar man can hear him.
2. CDT after dive bomber attack two days later further north. Dove, but got struck by bomb. After submerged repairs CDT when zooming out on nav map.

Mod list:

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v0.90_RC3_PublicBe ta_EN
PE4_Final
Bigger Better Protractors
Webster's S-Class Mod for v1.4 & v1.5

Fresh steam install, LAA
I'm also using shSpeech255

Question unrelated to bugs: Can real navigation work with FOTRSU?

Greetings and thanks to all the tireless modders and testers.

To my knowledge none of the mods are are adding to FOTRSU are or have been tested as compatible with FOTRSU current version. Remove those mods, reinstall everything from a fresh game install and replicate your ctd if you can. You issue is mostly likely the other mods perhaps being in conflict not FOTRSU itself.

[propbeanie]

merc4ulfate is correct, other than the Bigger Better Protractors is already in the mod. Websters S-Class Mod, while cool and really good, is definitely not compatible, since there are changes done to the boat in FotRSU already. Sound mods may or may not be compatible, and are not supported by the team at this time. All of the above probably contributes to your not hearing that merchant, and the later CTD. You will have to delete your Save folder after you remove the other mods, so that data gets re-set before you try FotRSU again...

[YellowFin]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

merc4ulfate is correct, other than the Bigger Better Protractors is already in the mod. Websters S-Class Mod, while cool and really good, is definitely not compatible, since there are changes done to the boat in FotRSU already. Sound mods may or may not be compatible, and are not supported by the team at this time. All of the above probably contributes to your not hearing that merchant, and the later CTD. You will have to delete your Save folder after you remove the other mods, so that data gets re-set before you try FotRSU again...

Thank mercsulfate and you for prompt help. The sound mod isn't really a sound mod. It is just a package to help with Microsoft Speech Recognition to allow voice commands. It doesn't change game files.

• Bigger protaractors are already in FOTRSU?
• Will remove S-Class mod.
• What about PacificEnvironment 4?
• Is any real (celestial) navigation mod compatible with FOTRSU?

[propbeanie]

I forgot about your navigation question... sorry 'bout that. But yes, it is possible, though there are a LOT of things that can get "off", or out of sync, in the game. The "world" is a cylinder, while the sky appears to be a squished 1/2 dome, and the sun and moon are separate from that... What we found last year was that the Time Compression used can influence the "sync" of these parts of the game. Front Runner was the one who discovered this. He would play the game a 1x (real) time as he worked around the house, and would notice a time-drift over the course of time, where sunset and sunrise times were "drifting". He started a thread called "Base Time 2018", which has a few more links to other threads and resources for "discoveries" he found. The big one was limiting the frame rate of the game to 30fps, which is possible to do rather easily with an nVidia card, but not so with an onboard Intel, and we haven't found anything for an AMD card yet either. Once you limit the framerate, then the time sequence in the game doesn't seem to drift out of sync with the various "celestial bodies" like it did previously, plus with the work that CapnScurvy did on the moon (it seemed to be "backwards" before), you might now have relatively stable base to calculate from (though we have not had anyone try and comment on succes or failure yet). However, the only way you find out that the game is out of sync with itself, is when you run aground in the middle of the night, though by your calculations, you're 30 nautical miles from the nearest land mass...

As for PE4, I would not trust that in the mod just yet (parts of it are already in the game anyway). When we release the regular version of FotRSU here shortly, then we'll start to finalize some of the "certifying" of mods as compatible or incompatible, and what order they need to be applied in. You might notice that Rockin Robbins has the FotRSU mod named as "100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate..."? No other mod numbered in the 100 series would be compatible with it. a "200_" mod would overwrite a lot of the game, and you would probably only use one of those (ie: Campaign over-write). "300_" and above mods would be grouped by major mod types and numbered in the hundreds, and then similar mods would be numbered in sequence (similar to what THEBERBSTER did with Webster's GFO mod), such that you would know that a "302" mod would be activated before a "305" mod. Also, you would not install two "302" mods... stuff like that is for the future.

[YellowFin]

Thank you, that's all very interesting.

Do I understand you correctly, in principle celestial navigation is possible in SH 4, these star spangled night skies actually are based on reality?

I would need to limit the frame rate of the game via nVidia driver settings?

While we're at it, does the game model drift or currents? I am using voice commands, which in theory should make for extremely precise navigation: E.g. I can say "Heading left 40 degrees" and in principle the boat should turn exacactly 40 degrees to port. However, more often than not the confirmation comes back a few degrees off. Same for depths. Normally I dive to 80 feet in order not to get spotted in clear (in real reports they called it "glassy") water. Usually the confirmation is "New depth 79 feet". Similarly, I notice that the boat veers of course after some time, say 3-4 degrees to port. When I correct with saying "heading right 5 degrees" sometimes the course confirmation comes back even worse (to port).

I wonder if these imprecisions are working as intended (modelling drift, etc.) or bugs or just short comings of the UI? Voice command uses the UI, it basically takes the mouse cursor and clicks wherever the according voice command is registered to be clicked for.

PS: I have not activated again, or even unzipped for that matter, PE or BiggerProtractors. I only have FOTRSU active at this point.
PPS: I had two instances of sonar not hearing a double patrol of US trawlers, first time off Corregidor Island on Dec 11, 1941 and the second time off Catanduanes Island, to the SE later in December 1941. At least on the first instance the two trawlers were travelling at around 6 kts. The sonar man didn't hear them nor did I upon listening in. I could see them moving through the observation periscope. Again, this the complete fresh install with deletions / registry cleaning, etc.

[merc4ulfate]

• Bigger protaractors are already in FOTRSU? YES
• Will remove S-Class mod.
• What about PacificEnvironment 4? Don't add it.
• Is any real (celestial) navigation mod compatible with FOTRSU? NADA

You need to remember there is a huge amount of modifications going into this one mod. For the most part you will not need to add mods to this unless you want to dumb it down and most likely that will end in corruption since no other mod is compatible with it.

Go though your readme files and documentation for Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate. It is like a Mod to end all mods in how the modders have put in very desirable things so you never have to add to it.

This is also one of the reason there is no final version of it as yet. The modders are smart enough to know there needs to be some game play and feedback to spot bug and unintended overwrites. They have worked very hard on this and from day one have said ... Do Not Add Any Mods to Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate.

[propbeanie]

As for coastal vessels, a lot of those are not heard on sonar, which is a "game" thing. We have moved some of the smaller Japanese vessels into Type=108, which was renamed to "Motorized Coastal Vessel", but left some as Type=104, which are "silent" to sonar, simulating vessels without motors... yet you'll find Sampans in convoys in the Stock game doing 9 knots, and silent as a ghost... - anyway, I don't think we've messed with the Allied traffic much yet, but that is a plan for the future.

As for the course discrepancies, I assume that they intended to model in some ocean sea current drift, and a tired helmsman's drift, etc., but it does happen all of the time. Even if you set a course, you will usually find that the helmsman is off by a couple of degrees, and if you order him to return to course, you'll hear "Returning to course - yes sir", and then notice, as you mentioned, that the error becomes larger... - what to do? Court-martial? Keel-haul?? - while you don't have to watch your crew as much as you did in SH3, you do still have to keep an eye on them. If you want to micro-manage the crew, go through their qualifications, and move them around if desired. You might find someone who could steer closer to the assigned course... then again, it might be worse...

For the "real navigation", the key part of what you said is "based on reality". They attempted to simulate the night skies and celestial movements, but there are some things that just get out of whack with each other. If you discuss this with Rockin Robbins, he will unequivocally tell you that the game is messed-up in this regard, but he is an amateur astronomer, and knows his stuff. If you watch a sunrise of sunset in the game, you might notice some "distortion" in the distance traveled versus the elevation, so there are certain times when the celestial world is distorted. But if you do things the same time everyday, then you'll be consistent...

[YellowFin]

Interesting. Maybe I will play around with celestial navigation later. Thanks for your detailed explanation.