Re-reading Blair's books

John Pancoast · 01-28-20, 06:24 AM

Lots of interesting items mentioned:

- a u-boat was spotted on the surface from ten (!) miles away. Multiple accounts of early war escort crews seeing the sub *first*.

- via the book, maybe the stock weather in SH3 isn't far off, bugged or not. Many mentions of lengthy terrrible storms at all times of the year, damaging convoys, affecting u-boat operations, etc.
I've been using it for awhile now actually.

- even on a full moon, cloudless night submerged attacks weren't always possible due to not enough light for the scope. (I never attack submerged at night myself. Haven't found proof it's historically accurate to do so).

- wish the game allowed contact reports without having to be in actual contact with the convoy.
I.e., after withdrawing after an attack, wasn't uncommon for the contact report to then be sent.

- the diesel engines were far from reliable. Many mentions of aborted patrols, problems, etc. due to breakdowns.

- the early war escorts were much more effective and capable than portrayed in any version of SH3. Though I have a modified Rub 1.45 campaign going with CB's old AI mod that is much better. Maybe to much so.

- statement in the 1943 section of the books, the u-boat hydrophones could detect a convoy *in good weather from 10-20 miles away*.

- the convoys in SH3 do not have enough escorts attached. Comparable sized ones in the books had 50-100% more escorts and were considered thinly (!) escorted.

Some more I can't recall at the moment. I'll post them if I do.

K-61 · 01-29-20, 08:06 PM

I just had some new windows installed in my house. As part of the prepping process for the workers my wife and I moved our stuff about, bookshelves and such. I found "Hitler's U-boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" in hard cover. I am keeping my eye out for the second volume, no luck yet. I envy you, John, for having both volumes, is that correct?

Aktungbby · 01-29-20, 08:18 PM

JUST ORDER IT ON LINE ON A KINDLE OR BOOK-KINDLE FUNCTION FOR YOUR TABLET; I GOT VOLUME IN PAPER AND THE OTHER IS ELECTRONIC: BOTH ON MY KINDLE AND MY TSAMSUNG TABLET WHICH ALSO HAS MY KINDLE ACCOUNT. FOR A

R, BOTH VOLUMES ARE REQUIRED READING....IMHO

UKönig · 01-29-20, 08:35 PM

Every time I finish volume 2, I turn em over and start it all over again.
Although lately I skip the allied portions of the narrative, and read just about the German side. I don't really care that much about allied politics and development of the code cracking computers or how much material traded hands.
Even though I've read the books probably 20 times in 4 years, I still find new things...
In between that, I find time for the novel das boot, and iron coffins.

John Pancoast · 01-29-20, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-61

I just had some new windows installed in my house. As part of the prepping process for the workers my wife and I moved our stuff about, bookshelves and such. I found "Hitler's U-boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" in hard cover. I am keeping my eye out for the second volume, no luck yet. I envy you, John, for having both volumes, is that correct?

Yes, had them both since they came out, hardcover. I bet there are some on eBay.

John Pancoast · 01-31-20, 07:02 AM

Another long distance, escort sees the sub first visual spotting. 11pm, December, seven miles !

No info. on moon/sky state, but even if it was clear with a full moon that's impressive.

Me too UKonig; find new things with each reading.

Aktungbby · 01-31-20, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Another long distance, escort sees the sub first visual spotting. 11pm, December, seven miles !

No info. on moon/sky state, but even if it was clear with a full moon that's impressive.

Me too UKonig; find new things with each reading.

C'mon now! probably a bunch of 20 something u-bootsmanns were smoking on the 'wintergarten' thinking they were safe gabbing about bad food, the whores of Lorient, the smelly crap bucket in the engine room etc. and gave away their position passing a cigarette match or lighter around

]

John Pancoast · 01-31-20, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

C'mon now! probably a bunch of 20 something u-bootsmanns were smoking on the 'wintergarten' thinking they were safe gabbing about bad food, the whores of Lorient, the smelly crap bucket in the engine room etc. and gave away their position passing a cigarette match or lighter around

]

Ha ! Could be ! Plus of course, Blair was taking the account from the official British records and skippers have been known to exaggerate at times !

Anvar1061 · 01-31-20, 11:26 AM

I want to recommend another fascinating reading.
S.W. Roskill WAR AT SEA 1939-1945
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/U...N-I/index.html
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...dex.html#pagev
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...I-1/index.html
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...I-2/index.html

David I · 01-31-20, 12:28 PM

K-61,

You can pick up both volumes (used good condition) for less than $10 each at Amazon.

They are a once every other year read for me.

David I

K-61 · 01-31-20, 05:03 PM

Thanks, David. I got my first volume copy at a used bookstore in town. I suppose I should check to see if they have the second volume, and if unsuccessful then check online.

Levyathan89 · 02-04-20, 12:48 PM

Thank you for the recommendation. Hadn't heard of Clay Blair before. I've just ordered both volumes

Eastwa · 02-12-20, 08:52 AM

I have them both sine they were released great reference books.

Also another great 2 book series that I use all the time is Uboat Operations of the second world war by Kenneth Wynn which shows every patrol by every uboat.

Aktungbby · 02-12-20, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastwa

I have them both sine they were released great reference books.

Also another great 2 book series that I use all the time is Uboat Operations of the second world war by Kenneth Wynn which shows every patrol by every uboat.

just remember, the official

ratio of reading to subsimming is 20 to 1. We can't waste our diminishing eyesight(age 68: eyeballs: 70+

) on damn books when intense screen gazing is a vital factor..

John Pancoast · 03-02-20, 06:17 AM

Notice that there was a "Wolf Stiebler" who was a milk cow skipper. NYGM's Stiebler wrote a book about the milk cows.

Interesting.

01-28-20, 06:24 AM	#1
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,182 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	Re-reading Blair's books Lots of interesting items mentioned: - a u-boat was spotted on the surface from ten (!) miles away. Multiple accounts of early war escort crews seeing the sub first. - via the book, maybe the stock weather in SH3 isn't far off, bugged or not. Many mentions of lengthy terrrible storms at all times of the year, damaging convoys, affecting u-boat operations, etc. I've been using it for awhile now actually. - even on a full moon, cloudless night submerged attacks weren't always possible due to not enough light for the scope. (I never attack submerged at night myself. Haven't found proof it's historically accurate to do so). - wish the game allowed contact reports without having to be in actual contact with the convoy. I.e., after withdrawing after an attack, wasn't uncommon for the contact report to then be sent. - the diesel engines were far from reliable. Many mentions of aborted patrols, problems, etc. due to breakdowns. - the early war escorts were much more effective and capable than portrayed in any version of SH3. Though I have a modified Rub 1.45 campaign going with CB's old AI mod that is much better. Maybe to much so. - statement in the 1943 section of the books, the u-boat hydrophones could detect a convoy in good weather from 10-20 miles away. - the convoys in SH3 do not have enough escorts attached. Comparable sized ones in the books had 50-100% more escorts and were considered thinly (!) escorted. Some more I can't recall at the moment. I'll post them if I do. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper Last edited by John Pancoast; 03-02-20 at 10:39 AM.

01-29-20, 08:06 PM	#2
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	I just had some new windows installed in my house. As part of the prepping process for the workers my wife and I moved our stuff about, bookshelves and such. I found "Hitler's U-boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942" in hard cover. I am keeping my eye out for the second volume, no luck yet. I envy you, John, for having both volumes, is that correct? __________________

01-29-20, 08:18 PM	#3
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 27,843 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	JUST ORDER IT ON LINE ON A KINDLE OR BOOK-KINDLE FUNCTION FOR YOUR TABLET; I GOT VOLUME IN PAPER AND THE OTHER IS ELECTRONIC: BOTH ON MY KINDLE AND MY TSAMSUNG TABLET WHICH ALSO HAS MY KINDLE ACCOUNT. FOR A R, BOTH VOLUMES ARE REQUIRED READING....IMHO __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

01-29-20, 08:35 PM	#4
UKönig Captain Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 495 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Every time I finish volume 2, I turn em over and start it all over again. Although lately I skip the allied portions of the narrative, and read just about the German side. I don't really care that much about allied politics and development of the code cracking computers or how much material traded hands. Even though I've read the books probably 20 times in 4 years, I still find new things... In between that, I find time for the novel das boot, and iron coffins. __________________ Because I'm the captain, that's why!

01-31-20, 07:02 AM	#6
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,182 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	Another long distance, escort sees the sub first visual spotting. 11pm, December, seven miles ! No info. on moon/sky state, but even if it was clear with a full moon that's impressive. Me too UKonig; find new things with each reading. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper

01-31-20, 11:26 AM	#9
Anvar1061 Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2012 Location: In the sea, on land and above Posts: 3,344 Downloads: 846 Uploads: 0	I want to recommend another fascinating reading. S.W. Roskill WAR AT SEA 1939-1945 http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/U...N-I/index.html https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...dex.html#pagev https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...I-1/index.html https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...I-2/index.html __________________

01-31-20, 12:28 PM	#10
David I Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 231 Downloads: 360 Uploads: 0	Where to buy - Answer K-61, You can pick up both volumes (used good condition) for less than $10 each at Amazon. They are a once every other year read for me. David I

01-31-20, 05:03 PM	#11
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Thanks, David. I got my first volume copy at a used bookstore in town. I suppose I should check to see if they have the second volume, and if unsuccessful then check online. __________________

02-04-20, 12:48 PM	#12
Levyathan89 Soundman Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Dresden, Germany Posts: 147 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Thank you for the recommendation. Hadn't heard of Clay Blair before. I've just ordered both volumes

02-12-20, 08:52 AM	#13
Eastwa Torpedoman Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 112 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	I have them both sine they were released great reference books. Also another great 2 book series that I use all the time is Uboat Operations of the second world war by Kenneth Wynn which shows every patrol by every uboat.

03-02-20, 06:17 AM	#15
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,182 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	Notice that there was a "Wolf Stiebler" who was a milk cow skipper. NYGM's Stiebler wrote a book about the milk cows. Interesting. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper