Royal Navy's Carrier Strike Group forms up for first time with HMS Queen Elizabeth

[Gerald]

The Royal Navy’s new Carrier Strike Group has assembled for the first time, marking the beginning of a new era of operations. HMS Queen Elizabeth is at the centre of the group which is the start of joint carrier operations between the navy and its NATO allies. Nine ships, 15 fighter jets, 11 helicopters and 3,000 personnel from the UK, US and the Netherlands are now carrying out exercises in the North Sea.

[Aktungbby]

why only 15 fighter jets? She's rated a full complement of 35+(surge deployment) fighters: F-35 B Lightning II fighters....anything less does not send
a proper message to the ever-nosey Russians

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

why only 15 fighter jets? She's rated a full complement of 35+(surge deployment) fighters: F-35 B Lightning II fighters....anything less does not send
a proper message to the ever-nosey Russians

Precisely!!

[Kapitan]

We haven't received the full compliment of F35B yet they are still being built, also they are augmenting the aircraft with USMC F35B (5 are FAA and 10 are USMC) for cross deck training right now which is taking the numbers up for carrier qualified pilots, we also have rotary aircraft on board.

This group is an exercise within the JW2020 to test the interoperability between the UK and NATO specifically the USN.

[Aktungbby]

I was aware of the ongoing problem but it still sends a poor message to the ruskies https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...fighters-88766

The first batch of forty-eight F-35s, which began arriving this year and will run through 2025, are scheduled to be the F-35B, the short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) variant. STOVL aircraft can operate off the short decks of “ski-jump” carriers like Britain’s new Queen Elizabeth-class vessels, and then land vertically. This makes these ships smaller and cheaper than American-style carriers with their long flight decks, catapults and arresting gear for conventional aircraft launch and recovery.

"This will completely undermine…the whole carrier program," one source told Sky News. “There is no operational reason whatsoever for the RAF to have the ‘A’ [land-based] variant. If it can't fly from an aircraft carrier, it shouldn't be purchased." Interestingly, the Royal Navy argues that buying more land-based and fewer carrier-based F-35s will anger the Americans. “The United States regard the Royal Navy as the one and only peer navy able to operate aircraft carriers,” one naval source said.

With inimitable British wit, he added, “Aircraft carriers need to be able to operate with combat aircraft. The clue is in the name.” The RAF and the Ministry of Defense deny a plot to snatch the Royal Navy’s F-35s. But whether or not the reports are true, or just the usual interservice rivalry and suspicion, they illuminate the problem that Britain faces. Most of the thirteen nations that are part of the F-35 program, such as Israel, South Korea and most recently Belgium, are land powers. They only need to buy land-based F-35s for their air forces.

Even if the Royal Navy is only a shadow of its former imperial glory, Britain still aspires to remain a naval power. Britain—as well as Japan—are building a small force of carriers or carrier-like vessels, which require the naval F-35B (which can also operate from land) as well as F-35As. For the United States, that’s not such a dilemma: even with the F-35 costing almost $100 million apiece, the United States can afford to equip the U.S. Air Force with the F-35A, the U.S. Navy with the naval F-35C, and even the U.S. Marine Corps with the F-35B. Thus the United States can operate three different F-35 fleets that are similar but not identical in capabilities and logistics. But that’s not so easy for Britain, which already is US$7 billion short of the cash it needs to buy all the items on its 10-year military procurement plan, which calls for new submarines and armored vehicles, as well as aircraft carriers and F-35 jets.

Bottom line; they should load up with a 'borrowed' US or NATO squadron that can use the practise also, thus demonstrating both interoperability as you put it, and sending the critical at full 'surge' capacity message to the Russians. A carrier group sorty is expensive to a cash strapped military to begin with....best to do it right!

[Kapitan]

Well the JW2020 is to test the practice and theory behind the QE concept, this is almost like a dress rehearsal for deployment to the South China Sea, the reality is if I recall only the UK Italy and Spain that will operate the F35B and the UK doesn't work with them as much as we do with the USN (USMC), KoninKlijke Marine or Marine National.

What JW will be doing in this instance will be certifying the carrier fit for operations I have no doubt there is a FOST crew on her assessing the crew, they don't require a full airwing compliment to do this and the main thing is the airwing will only consist of around 35 in normal operations, up to 65 in war time.

With the surge force that will be between the European forces not just the USMC but agreed we could deploy with other forces mainly USMC, should we have done so on this exercise, no I don't think so this is more to test the carrier systems and crew operations not the flying.

As for being cash strapped not really the UK's RN is quite well funded, yes we have cut some corners but in terms of cash strapped totally disagree the amount of operations and commitments we have around the world shows one thing the RN isn't lack is money.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Well the JW2020 is to test the practice and theory behind the QE concept, this is almost like a dress rehearsal for deployment to the South China Sea, the reality is if I recall only the UK Italy and Spain that will operate the F35B and the UK doesn't work with them as much as we do with the USN (USMC), KoninKlijke Marine or Marine National.

What JW will be doing in this instance will be certifying the carrier fit for operations I have no doubt there is a FOST crew on her assessing the crew, they don't require a full airwing compliment to do this and the main thing is the airwing will only consist of around 35 in normal operations, up to 65 in war time.

With the surge force that will be between the European forces not just the USMC but agreed we could deploy with other forces mainly USMC, should we have done so on this exercise, no I don't think so this is more to test the carrier systems and crew operations not the flying.

As for being cash strapped not really the UK's RN is quite well funded, yes we have cut some corners but in terms of cash strapped totally disagree the amount of operations and commitments we have around the world shows one thing the RN isn't lack is money.

There are always views on how these groups should be. However, it is important to synchronize and practice and perform exercises together. How long would you think it is possible for the conditions to be the best in time?

[Kapitan]

With the fact we don't have the full compliment of F35B yet it is going to take some time id say we wont be fully operational until around 2025 with QE, we also need to put F35B onto the POW and train her crews.

In reality the cross decking and other training is new to the QE but not new to the rest of the fleet, id say by the time we get to the south china sea we would be around 70% there plus we should have more F35B by then as well.

JW2020 is a large exercise and not only is QE being tested but Prospective submarine captains are also joining JW2020 (Perisher) so there is quite a lot of training to be had from this exercise.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

With the fact we don't have the full compliment of F35B yet it is going to take some time id say we wont be fully operational until around 2025 with QE, we also need to put F35B onto the POW and train her crews.

In reality the cross decking and other training is new to the QE but not new to the rest of the fleet, id say by the time we get to the south china sea we would be around 70% there plus we should have more F35B by then as well.

JW2020 is a large exercise and not only is QE being tested but Prospective submarine captains are also joining JW2020 (Perisher) so there is quite a lot of training to be had from this exercise.

Is it possible to include other allies in this group to speed up training to become more competent in meeting any potential threats?

[Kapitan]

We already do this as a matter of normal course, you will often find we practice regularly with the Belgian Dutch Danish French Polish and Norweigen navies regularly.

Perisher right now is UK instructor staff teaching perisher on Dutch Submarines (Dolfijn if i'm not mistaken a Walrus class boat), the European side of NATO is very very intertwined we regularly practice and European nations are regularly involved with Thursday war.

Technically the European Union wants to create a defence force its the whole reason the QE and POW were built, this started back in 1998 under the St Malo treaty and the UK was to build two large carriers while France was to provide the 3rd this gave the EU a 3 carrier strike group.

Other nations such as Belgium Germany Spain Norway were to provide main escorts for the CSG's with countries like Italy and Spain providing smaller carrier groups.

The Joint Anglo Dutch marine expeditionary force centered around the Dutch ships Rotterdam, Johan de witt and also the Karel Doorman with the British ships HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion were to provide Amphibious tasking backed up by a Joint Anglo German Auxilary supply force.

Also to bring into the frey here and to note, European ferry operators are always on call for duty, the roll on roll off capacity in Europe cannot be matched not even by the US MSC.

Other forces also integrate especially in the Baltic countries where the UK works with those host countries but also countries like Poland Germany Italy Spain Greece and France.

So you see we do already integrate heavily

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

We already do this as a matter of normal course, you will often find we practice regularly with the Belgian Dutch Danish French Polish and Norweigen navies regularly.

Perisher right now is UK instructor staff teaching perisher on Dutch Submarines (Dolfijn if i'm not mistaken a Walrus class boat), the European side of NATO is very very intertwined we regularly practice and European nations are regularly involved with Thursday war.

Technically the European Union wants to create a defence force its the whole reason the QE and POW were built, this started back in 1998 under the St Malo treaty and the UK was to build two large carriers while France was to provide the 3rd this gave the EU a 3 carrier strike group.

Other nations such as Belgium Germany Spain Norway were to provide main escorts for the CSG's with countries like Italy and Spain providing smaller carrier groups.

The Joint Anglo Dutch marine expeditionary force centered around the Dutch ships Rotterdam, Johan de witt and also the Karel Doorman with the British ships HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion were to provide Amphibious tasking backed up by a Joint Anglo German Auxilary supply force.

Also to bring into the frey here and to note, European ferry operators are always on call for duty, the roll on roll off capacity in Europe cannot be matched not even by the US MSC.

Other forces also integrate especially in the Baltic countries where the UK works with those host countries but also countries like Poland Germany Italy Spain Greece and France.

So you see we do already integrate heavily

Within the EU, there is great gratitude that the US+UK has the opportunity to line up with crew and ships, Sweden has unfortunately chosen to have a low profile mostly due to the left movement in the country, however, there is a majority in many stages to line up with submarines. and management-equipped Gripenplan. To at least secure strategic locations, but is happening more now than before. But this is "off topic" in some way.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

We already do this as a matter of normal course, you will often find we practice regularly with the Belgian Dutch Danish French Polish and Norweigen navies regularly.

Perisher right now is UK instructor staff teaching perisher on Dutch Submarines (Dolfijn if i'm not mistaken a Walrus class boat), the European side of NATO is very very intertwined we regularly practice and European nations are regularly involved with Thursday war.

Technically the European Union wants to create a defence force its the whole reason the QE and POW were built, this started back in 1998 under the St Malo treaty and the UK was to build two large carriers while France was to provide the 3rd this gave the EU a 3 carrier strike group.

Other nations such as Belgium Germany Spain Norway were to provide main escorts for the CSG's with countries like Italy and Spain providing smaller carrier groups.

The Joint Anglo Dutch marine expeditionary force centered around the Dutch ships Rotterdam, Johan de witt and also the Karel Doorman with the British ships HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion were to provide Amphibious tasking backed up by a Joint Anglo German Auxilary supply force.

Also to bring into the frey here and to note, European ferry operators are always on call for duty, the roll on roll off capacity in Europe cannot be matched not even by the US MSC.

Other forces also integrate especially in the Baltic countries where the UK works with those host countries but also countries like Poland Germany Italy Spain Greece and France.

So you see we do already integrate heavily

We most certainly do

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Within the EU, there is great gratitude that the US+UK has the opportunity to line up with crew and ships, Sweden has unfortunately chosen to have a low profile mostly due to the left movement in the country, however, there is a majority in many stages to line up with submarines. and management-equipped Gripenplan. To at least secure strategic locations, but is happening more now than before. But this is "off topic" in some way.

Well there is some reasons as to why Sweden has a low profile foreign policy, mainly its due to the constitution forbidding alliances which is why Sweden is not part of NATO.

Sweden is home grown defense and is centered on a defensive strategy the idea hold the borders mentality does not allow offensive capabilities.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Well there is some reasons as to why Sweden has a low profile foreign policy, mainly its due to the constitution forbidding alliances which is why Sweden is not part of NATO.

Sweden is home grown defense and is centered on a defensive strategy the idea hold the borders mentality does not allow offensive capabilities.

Fully aware of Sweden's position on these issues. Partnership for peace is part, agreement. (A Beginning) or Enhanced Opportunity Partners, there are several. But again, I want to emphasize that the left-wing political movement that has ruled and prevails in Sweden is an obstacle to further "agreements". And there is reason for NATO to also be critical of itself, not because I think that major changes are to come. Stoltenberg is certainly doing his job, but he needs to put more pressure on other countries, so that they contribute more in defense spending (US alone at least 35 percent) and development within their own structural system. If you look at the EU and look at its large negative breadth that has allowed too many countries to enter, in a perspective it can be converted to also include NATO after the fall of the wall, 14 countries are accepted and at least two are waiting, this is not a too positive situation, as quality needs to prevail over quantity.