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Old 02-28-2021, 07:31 PM   #2281
ijustwantrisingsun
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Originally Posted by El Whacko View Post
I once had two deck guns playing SH4 with FotRSU. Both of them were usable. So I see no reason why we can't have two deck guns here.
My apologies, I meant as in having more than just 2 deck guns, as seen that the 139 had 4
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:09 PM   #2282
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Originally Posted by ijustwantrisingsun View Post
My apologies, I meant as in having more than just 2 deck guns, as seen that the 139 had 4
Oh, I don't know about that, it's fine too.
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:16 PM   #2283
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Originally Posted by Buddahaid View Post
Drachinifel did some videos recently on the subject. I really can't wait for this mod.....


Thanks!
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:18 PM   #2284
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Originally Posted by iambecomelife View Post
I agree. The interesting thing is, even the Germans had an incorrect submarine doctrine at the start of WWI. And contrary to popular belief, Germany did NOT have the biggest fleet of submarines when the war started. The British had more. Initially, the German navy thought of U-Boats as coastal defense units for destroying enemy warships if they tried to blockade or invade Germany.

However, after several amazing victories in 1914 (Pathfinder, Aboukir, Cressy, Hogue, & Hawke sinkings) they gradually realized that taking the battle to the enemy was a feasible strategy - especially through an anti-commerce campaign in distant waters.

The Germans had several important advantages over other submarine fleets:

-Reliable diesel propulsion. MAN & Germaniawerft diesel engines were quite good, and improved during the war. Other navies like the French wasted time with petrol boats and struggled to build good diesels.

-Good weapons. The G6 and G7 torpedoes and mines used by K.M. submarines were excellent - in fact, German WWII torpedoes were close relatives of the WWI G7. British torpedoes, on the other hand, often ran deep or failed to explode.

-Aggressive officers. Germany doesn't seem to have had a problem with overly-cautious or timid commanders like other navies. U-Boat Kaleuns showed great tenacity in the field; the records of Hersing, Rose, de la Periere, and others with over 100,000 tons sunk speak for themselves.

Interesting. Obviously, you have done your research. Curious, because I seem to find contradictory information in various sources. Did Allies have active sonar, i.e. ASDIC during WW I? I know they had hydrophones (referred to as sonar sometimes). Did they sink any u boats via depth charge attack ? After sonar detection?
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:50 PM   #2285
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Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980 View Post
Interesting. Obviously, you have done your research. Curious, because I seem to find contradictory information in various sources. Did Allies have active sonar, i.e. ASDIC during WW I? I know they had hydrophones (referred to as sonar sometimes). Did they sink any u boats via depth charge attack ? After sonar detection?
Clay Blair says that ASDIC only reached prototype stage by 1918. Wikipedia confirms this; furthermore, my best source on WWI British destroyers only speaks of hydrophones (as you said). Thus, there will be no ASDIC in the mod. Several submarines were sunk by depth charges, so they will be there. However, not until 1916, and they won't be common until 1917. Historically, they were potentially deadly, just like WWII depth charges, but WAY WAY underproduced - in fact, some ships started out with only 2 depth charges! By the end of the war, however, some escorts had about 30 or even more, since the production problems had been resolved.

However, I plan to make submarine combat extremely deadly through a variety of means!

1) EXTREMELY deadly surface guns (this is a big one). WOTK will have no "tank submarine" like stock Silent Hunter III. Any weapon larger than about a 3pdr (47mm gun) will demolish your sub with just a few shots. The British 3-inch/12 pounder gun was what many surface escorts and merchantmen were equipped with at a minumum, and many escorts had at least 3 or 4 4-inch gun mounts. Plus pom-poms, machine guns, and crewmen with small arms. The art of successful gameplay will involve EVADING enemy gun attacks. Not ABSORBING them, like unrealistic players do.

2) More torpedo units. SH4 gives ships working torpedoes, and they will be common! WWI Royal Navy doctrine called for DD's to use torpedoes as well as depth charges to attack subs. Also, many big ships like Dreadnoughts & Armored Cruisers will have torpedoes...often mounted on the beam. This gives them a perfect shot if you are careless while coming in for a flank attack.

3) Q-Ships. As just about everyone knows they were heavily used especially after 1915. They were not always affective and did suffer heavy losses, but they did claim their share of subs. As well as inflicting severe damage on several others that barely returned to port.

4) Extensive mining. Mines were the biggest killer of U_Boats, and the Allies laid huge barrages of them in the North Sea and English Channel. In WOTK these fields will become denser and deadlier. Especially by 1917, when the British copied the German contact mine to develop a reliable mine of their own.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:23 AM   #2286
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IABL, sorry for the stupid question, but what kind of merchant shipping'll be present in the mod? "unlike" ww2 era, a Great War scenario opens to an enormous roster of ships:not just "generic" steamers, but from old sailing ships, to paddle steamers and to old "vintage" steamers of 1880ies and 1890ies.
And an other question: will you use only scratch built ships or will be present any vanilla game ships? like crab boat, large fishing boat, biyo maru, tahioshan maru, zimbu maru and haruna maru
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Last edited by Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt; 03-03-2021 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:08 PM   #2287
Bubblehead1980
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Originally Posted by iambecomelife View Post
Clay Blair says that ASDIC only reached prototype stage by 1918. Wikipedia confirms this; furthermore, my best source on WWI British destroyers only speaks of hydrophones (as you said). Thus, there will be no ASDIC in the mod. Several submarines were sunk by depth charges, so they will be there. However, not until 1916, and they won't be common until 1917. Historically, they were potentially deadly, just like WWII depth charges, but WAY WAY underproduced - in fact, some ships started out with only 2 depth charges! By the end of the war, however, some escorts had about 30 or even more, since the production problems had been resolved.

However, I plan to make submarine combat extremely deadly through a variety of means!

1) EXTREMELY deadly surface guns (this is a big one). WOTK will have no "tank submarine" like stock Silent Hunter III. Any weapon larger than about a 3pdr (47mm gun) will demolish your sub with just a few shots. The British 3-inch/12 pounder gun was what many surface escorts and merchantmen were equipped with at a minumum, and many escorts had at least 3 or 4 4-inch gun mounts. Plus pom-poms, machine guns, and crewmen with small arms. The art of successful gameplay will involve EVADING enemy gun attacks. Not ABSORBING them, like unrealistic players do.

2) More torpedo units. SH4 gives ships working torpedoes, and they will be common! WWI Royal Navy doctrine called for DD's to use torpedoes as well as depth charges to attack subs. Also, many big ships like Dreadnoughts & Armored Cruisers will have torpedoes...often mounted on the beam. This gives them a perfect shot if you are careless while coming in for a flank attack.

3) Q-Ships. As just about everyone knows they were heavily used especially after 1915. They were not always affective and did suffer heavy losses, but they did claim their share of subs. As well as inflicting severe damage on several others that barely returned to port.

4) Extensive mining. Mines were the biggest killer of U_Boats, and the Allies laid huge barrages of them in the North Sea and English Channel. In WOTK these fields will become denser and deadlier. Especially by 1917, when the British copied the German contact mine to develop a reliable mine of their own.

Thanks, I tend to believe ASDIC was not around either but then read things using the term SONAR, and way things are described, sounded like active sonar not passive i.e. hydrophones.

Love all the things listed, especially not "tank" submarines. One of my biggest annoyances in the series is how tank like the subs are. I've tooled around with damage model on US subs but can never get them right, they become way less durable then US fleet boats were so go basically back to defaults in TMO mod, which did make them less tank like.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:41 PM   #2288
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Originally Posted by Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt View Post
IABL, sorry for the stupid question, but what kind of merchant shipping'll be present in the mod? "unlike" ww2 era, a Great War scenario opens to an enormous roster of ships:not just "generic" steamers, but from old sailing ships, to paddle steamers and to old "vintage" steamers of 1880ies and 1890ies.
And an other question: will you use only scratch built ships or will be present any vanilla game ships? like crab boat, large fishing boat, biyo maru, tahioshan maru, zimbu maru and haruna maru
Here's my basic shipping roster for WOTK; tonnages are very rough. I don't want to use any of the stock merchants; it is easy to make more detailed ships:

OCEAN LINER

Heavy: 45,000 GRT - 19,000 GRT
Medium: 20,000 GRT - 12,000 GRT
Light: 12,500 GRT - 9,000 GRT

FREIGHTER/CARGO LINER

-Heavy: 10,000 GRT - 8,000 GRT
-Medium: 8,500 GRT - 5,000 GRT
-Light: 4,000 GRT - 3,500 GRT

MERCHANT

-Heavy: 5,500 GRT - 4,000 GRT
-Medium: 3,500 GRT - 2,500 GRT
-Light: 2,000 GRT - 1,200 GRT
-Small: 1,200 GRT - 750 GRT

TANKER

-Heavy: 13,000 GRT - 10,500 GRT
-Medium: 11,000 GRT - 8,000 GRT
-Light: 5,500 GRT - 4,000 GRT
-Small: 1,800 GRT - 1,000 GRT

ORE CARRIER

-Heavy: 11,500 - 9,000 GRT
-Medium: 6,500 - 5,000 GRT
-Light: 3,500 - 2,000 GRT

COLLIER/COAL SHIP

-Heavy: 6,500 - 5,000 GRT
-Medium: 5,000 - 3,000 GRT
-Light: 2,000 - 2,500 GRT
-Small: 2,000 - 750 GRT

REEFER/PRODUCE CARRIER

-Heavy: 12,000 GRT - 9,000 GRT
-Medium: 6,500 GRT - 4,000 GRT


FERRY

-Heavy: 2,500 GRT - 1,900 GRT
-Medium: 1,000 GRT - 950 GRT
-Light: 900 GRT - 450 GRT

WEST CLASS MERCHANT

~ 5,650 GRT

LUCKENBACH MERCHANT

~ 6,000 GRT

WAR CLASS MERCHANT

~5,200 GRT

SAILING SHIP

~1,000 GRT

BRIG

~400 GRT

SCHOONER

~300 GRT

THAMES BARGE

~120 GRT

STEAM LAUNCH

~15 GRT

SAILBOAT

~45 GRT

ROWBOAT

~500 - 1000 lbs

SURVIVOR

~120 - 200 lbs
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:06 PM   #2289
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Originally Posted by ijustwantrisingsun View Post
Been following this mod for awhile, it's looking great!

As you can probably guess by my name I'm a big fan of the Rising Sun mod, notably utilizing the Narwhal class and it's dual 6 inch guns.

Will you be able to command the Type 151 U-Boats and U 139's? I'm not sure if SH 4 supports having more than 2 deck guns, but taking on enemy escorts solely with 2x 8.8cm's and 150mm guns is something I could get used to
The plan is to have U-139 class boats. Although maybe only with 2 150 mm guns; I have read that in practice they often left behind the 2 88 mm guns.
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Old 03-07-2021, 04:28 AM   #2290
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@IABL: There was also the towed depth charge and the towed nets & hooks which claimed some uboat in shallow waters. I guess it should be possible to model that in 3D and have some patrol units carry them so that they can "ram" you underwater. Since the AI will try to ram you and go over your position, you could be fool enough to dive only like 8 meters thinking the destroyer will run above with no hopes of damaging you - only to get rammed/caught in the extended 3D underwater part of it.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:27 AM   #2291
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@IABL: There was also the towed depth charge and the towed nets & hooks which claimed some uboat in shallow waters. I guess it should be possible to model that in 3D and have some patrol units carry them so that they can "ram" you underwater. Since the AI will try to ram you and go over your position, you could be fool enough to dive only like 8 meters thinking the destroyer will run above with no hopes of damaging you - only to get rammed/caught in the extended 3D underwater part of it.
Yes; that is a good idea - the "explosive sweeps" could be dangerous, and they were typical equipment on several destroyers, like the "M" class - the Central powers also used them, and they successfully destroyed at least one Italian submarine, the "Balilla". I think it would give the player some white knuckle moments (or make you happy if your escorts start hunting an enemy AI sub with one).
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:31 AM   #2292
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A little batch of weapons testing images that may not have been posted...







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Old 03-08-2021, 07:43 AM   #2293
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Good news - I resolved a big issue that had been holding down framerates! Some of my units did not have a "unified render controller" for sub-parts of the hull - thus, for units with 50,000 - 100,000 polys I was getting bad framerates of about 25-60 fps, and no more than about 30fps when I had a squadron of battleships. Adding a URC for all major parts corrected this - now it will be possible to have huge surface battles and convoys.

Before making the correction: ~ 25 - 60FPS

After: ~ 100 - 250FPS. Even with big battleship groups.

Took the opportunity to finish up a ship that had been missing from the roster for a long time ..... will be doing ingame tests soon. Still have various errors to correct, more details to add, & human figures to place.

Feels good, knowing that the complex and high-poly surface units are nearly all complete.















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Old 03-08-2021, 11:32 AM   #2294
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SHO Re: URC question...

Ahoy, IABL...

Just out of curiosity...

That 'URC' you mentioned, that brought the framerates down with large batlegroups with high poly counts... would that controller work for other SH4 (or even SH3 or 5, for that matter.. if you know, that is...) mega mods, to allow for bigger battlegroups or even recreating in the campaigns files, historic battles that took place.?

If so, it would be a BIG game changer, in allowing to really flesh out history in say like FotRS or Op. Monsun: Dark... if that is the case. Not to mention your own work you're doing with WotK....

M. M.

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Old 03-08-2021, 07:17 PM   #2295
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Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan View Post
Ahoy, IABL...

Just out of curiosity...

That 'URC' you mentioned, that brought the framerates down with large batlegroups with high poly counts... would that controller work for other SH4 (or even SH3 or 5, for that matter.. if you know, that is...) mega mods, to allow for bigger battlegroups or even recreating in the campaigns files, historic battles that took place.?

If so, it would be a BIG game changer, in allowing to really flesh out history in say like FotRS or Op. Monsun: Dark... if that is the case. Not to mention your own work you're doing with WotK....

M. M.

Basically, this discovery was me realizing I had not been doing something I should have done (and that the original devs did) - all of the stock units from unmodded Silent Hunter 4 have the Unified Render Controller in their .DAT files. Thus, they do not butcher frame rates (like modded units with no Unified Render Controller). It may be worthwhile to check and see if other modders forgot to give modded ships URC's because if so, they may be causing frame rates to be lowered.

However, if you are getting low frame rates with stock SH4 ships then your hardware is probably the issue. Hope that makes sense.
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