The DW Mod Scene - Ok, WTF? - Page 3

Pillar · 06-18-10, 01:35 PM

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Unless this range/course/speed detection was built into the original, I don't really see why it needed to be added

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Some sonars have "800-2000" Hz bandwidth. Therefore - the classification is complicated.
While the target is not determined as "Hostile" - she will not be attacked.

i.e., the AI in these cases lacks the means to engage *any* sub because it cannot classify the target. Hence the workaround.

I don't understand how it works exactly, but that's the explanation I think.

NFunky · 06-18-10, 06:10 PM

???????? I'm very confused as to how it works too. The AI-hostile-classification thing is a problem, but I have absolutely no idea how feeding it course/speed/range data helps. It'll give the AI a perfect solution, but still won't tell it what the target is. I'm also not convinced the AI won't fire on a contact that is not 100% classified. Even when I have a couple frequency lines, I still often have a number of choices in narrowband and just have to guess which one is the most likely. I've definately been fired on by subs I don't have a 100% classification on.

Pillar · 06-18-10, 08:26 PM

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It'll give the AI a perfect solution, but still won't tell it what the target is.

I suspect that what I'm seeing are some checkboxes tagged as a result of a "reveal all" tag somewhere else. i.e, output, not cause.

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I'm also not convinced the AI won't fire on a contact that is not 100% classified

Want to be more confused?

As far as I know, the AI classifies the targets as soon as they are detected anyhow. Maybe that's something different about RA.

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ven when I have a couple frequency lines, I still often have a number of choices in narrowband and just have to guess which one is the most likely.

You're probably a lot better at it than the AI would be. So the AI doesn't guess... I suppose.

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I've definately been fired on by subs I don't have a 100% classification on.

Me too

Dang rude of them not to wait on MY classification.

NFunky · 06-18-10, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillar

Me too

Dang rude of them not to wait on MY classification.

Touché!

To be shamefully honest, I'm completely clueless as to what is in the actual database/doctrines/navalsimengine. I'm just a naval simmer and don't really comprehend all that habbajabbah.

Gorshkov · 07-06-10, 02:47 PM

Making a good (means realistic!) modern submarine simulation is an unfriendly task! Let's take a look at DW mods: I improved only one small aspect of entire stuff i.e. PSL levels of submarines to be able to achieve something what is close to early XXI century's reality. After doing that many mad as a cut snake Russkie fanboys, US fanboys and DW fanboys at large appeared questioning my work. I fully understand them all:

- I understand that Russkies still cannot agree with sad truth Russia is not a superpower any longer but only Third World backward country which desperately needs foreign help to remain afloat. I know this is all in a huge contrast to already reestablished comic Red Square Parades, funny military maneuvers in Venezuela and other fancy BS which are served by cunning Kremlin-boys to the Russkie public. Well, what else can they do? They cannot simply say the poor truth about Russkie military downfall to the nation in Moscow TV...

- I also understand US fanboys who cannot take into consideration China is making a huge progress in naval technology and warfare outrunning old America's rival - now flat Russia. Yet they should understand in two decades US will face another Yellow Gorshkov.

- I also fully understand DW fanboys because they need some fictionally upgraded Russkie stuff being still present in the game to save some game balance like winnable fight: Akula II versus Seawolf. Nope, buddies - this is not real!

However no fantasy modding can change present reality and I am interested only in real life simulations. That is why I am modding mods to my personal realistic taste!

Molon Labe · 07-06-10, 03:03 PM

Am I the US fanboy that thinks China sucks? Because I did the specs for the 054A, 053C, 022, etc...and China got pretty awesome in 3.10, if you'd care to look beyond the PSL of the 093 SSN. (And all we did with the 093 is put it where it was on the ONI chart--slightly louder than the Vic III.) We've taken the PLAN from a joke to brush aside to being a serious opponent.

TLAM Strike · 07-06-10, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Am I the US fanboy that thinks China sucks? Because I did the specs for the 054A, 053C, 022, etc...and China got pretty awesome in 3.10, if you'd care to look beyond the PSL of the 093 SSN. (And all we did with the 093 is put it where it was on the ONI chart--slightly louder than the Vic III.) We've taken the PLAN from a joke to brush aside to being a serious opponent.

Don't forget the Yuan ML, and their new anphibs.

Not to mention the new torpedoes and missiles.

Molon Labe · 07-06-10, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Don't forget the Yuan ML, and their new anphibs.

Not to mention the new torpedoes and missiles.

Good point. The change to the Yu-7 from...what was the standard ASW torp before? the A244?... was huge. The YJ-83 upgrade from the HY-2 and old version of the C-802, also huge. Yu-6 from -65K/TESTs as the primary torp of the sub fleet is also a pretty big deal. Air-to-surface going from the C801 to the Kh-31. Area AAW from non-existant to the HQ-9. Point defense from non-functional 37mms to working 37mms, AK-630s and Goalkeeper CIWS copies; ESSM SAMs to the HQ-7 and HQ-16. Okay, losing the ESSM was a downgrade, but China never had ESSMs to begin with (SCS just decided it was "close enough" to the HQ-7 and HQ-61 systems and went with it).

Gorshkov · 07-06-10, 07:38 PM

Well, guys - the truth about DW is simple: This is tactical ASW simulator used by US Navy adepts for training. However it was sold as an entertainment game with completely falsified USNII database and simplified Nav-Sim Engine which is fully understandable move of course.

What you are trying to achieve is to recreate this real database and improve game mechanics using open sources. I think this task is not satisfying now because you treat this data too narrowly and too directly but they are in fact highly messed and mixed-up - often intentionally! However I think some level of improvement is possible and thus I tried to show you on PSL values example how to do that - in my opinion - correctly. Well, this requires quite a sheer knowledge compiled from many dispersed and often unconnected with submarine warfare sources along with proper summarization of many factors to get some clear picture what is going on underwater now. Yet it is doable so try, try and try...I won't be bothering you since then. I will be only watching your progress...

TLAM Strike · 07-06-10, 08:04 PM

Our main problem with what you have been saying is your lack of evidence to back what you are saying. We have produced charts available to anyone showing were we got the data for our PSLs.

We will consider what you are saying in relation to our data if you can produce documentation.

Molon Labe · 07-07-10, 01:56 AM

07-07-10, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Well, guys - the truth about DW is simple: This is tactical ASW simulator used by US Navy adepts for training. However it was sold as an entertainment game with completely falsified USNII database and simplified Nav-Sim Engine which is fully understandable move of course.

What you are trying to achieve is to recreate this real database and improve game mechanics using open sources. I think this task is not satisfying now because you treat this data too narrowly and too directly but they are in fact highly messed and mixed-up - often intentionally! However I think some level of improvement is possible and thus I tried to show you on PSL values example how to do that - in my opinion - correctly. Well, this requires quite a sheer knowledge compiled from many dispersed and often unconnected with submarine warfare sources along with proper summarization of many factors to get some clear picture what is going on underwater now. Yet it is doable so try, try and try...I won't be bothering you since then. I will be only watching your progress...

bla-bla-bla...

You know as is done PSL in DW? You have not ripened for it !

You only speak - I think, about suspect.. (etc, etc...)

Give the facts.

Differently you ---> Mr. bla-bla-bla

goldorak · 07-08-10, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

great pic ML.

NFunky · 07-08-10, 11:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Molon Labe

LMFAO! I swear to god I had SP on in the background and that line came up just as I was reading your post.

07-06-10, 02:47 PM	#35
Gorshkov Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 604 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Making a good (means realistic!) modern submarine simulation is an unfriendly task! Let's take a look at DW mods: I improved only one small aspect of entire stuff i.e. PSL levels of submarines to be able to achieve something what is close to early XXI century's reality. After doing that many mad as a cut snake Russkie fanboys, US fanboys and DW fanboys at large appeared questioning my work. I fully understand them all: - I understand that Russkies still cannot agree with sad truth Russia is not a superpower any longer but only Third World backward country which desperately needs foreign help to remain afloat. I know this is all in a huge contrast to already reestablished comic Red Square Parades, funny military maneuvers in Venezuela and other fancy BS which are served by cunning Kremlin-boys to the Russkie public. Well, what else can they do? They cannot simply say the poor truth about Russkie military downfall to the nation in Moscow TV... - I also understand US fanboys who cannot take into consideration China is making a huge progress in naval technology and warfare outrunning old America's rival - now flat Russia. Yet they should understand in two decades US will face another Yellow Gorshkov. - I also fully understand DW fanboys because they need some fictionally upgraded Russkie stuff being still present in the game to save some game balance like winnable fight: Akula II versus Seawolf. Nope, buddies - this is not real! However no fantasy modding can change present reality and I am interested only in real life simulations. That is why I am modding mods to my personal realistic taste! Last edited by Gorshkov; 07-06-10 at 07:53 PM.

07-06-10, 03:03 PM	#36
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Am I the US fanboy that thinks China sucks? Because I did the specs for the 054A, 053C, 022, etc...and China got pretty awesome in 3.10, if you'd care to look beyond the PSL of the 093 SSN. (And all we did with the 093 is put it where it was on the ONI chart--slightly louder than the Vic III.) We've taken the PLAN from a joke to brush aside to being a serious opponent. __________________

07-06-10, 07:38 PM	#39
Gorshkov Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 604 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Well, guys - the truth about DW is simple: This is tactical ASW simulator used by US Navy adepts for training. However it was sold as an entertainment game with completely falsified USNII database and simplified Nav-Sim Engine which is fully understandable move of course. What you are trying to achieve is to recreate this real database and improve game mechanics using open sources. I think this task is not satisfying now because you treat this data too narrowly and too directly but they are in fact highly messed and mixed-up - often intentionally! However I think some level of improvement is possible and thus I tried to show you on PSL values example how to do that - in my opinion - correctly. Well, this requires quite a sheer knowledge compiled from many dispersed and often unconnected with submarine warfare sources along with proper summarization of many factors to get some clear picture what is going on underwater now. Yet it is doable so try, try and try...I won't be bothering you since then. I will be only watching your progress... Last edited by Gorshkov; 07-06-10 at 07:55 PM.

07-06-10, 08:04 PM	#40
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Our main problem with what you have been saying is your lack of evidence to back what you are saying. We have produced charts available to anyone showing were we got the data for our PSLs. We will consider what you are saying in relation to our data if you can produce documentation. __________________

07-07-10, 01:56 AM	#41
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	__________________

06-18-10, 06:10 PM	#32
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	???????? I'm very confused as to how it works too. The AI-hostile-classification thing is a problem, but I have absolutely no idea how feeding it course/speed/range data helps. It'll give the AI a perfect solution, but still won't tell it what the target is. I'm also not convinced the AI won't fire on a contact that is not 100% classified. Even when I have a couple frequency lines, I still often have a number of choices in narrowband and just have to guess which one is the most likely. I've definately been fired on by subs I don't have a 100% classification on.