"T-34 vs Tiger" VS "Steel fury" my comparison

[Freiwillige]

Okay after playing the stuffing out of both sims these past few days ive come to these conclusions. Both games are less than adequate out of box. What one fails in the other does better and vice versa. Both seem to have a shallow single player eliment yet for differing reasons.

Graphically T-34 vs Tiger has some of the best veiws out there. comparing the terrain of the two SF seems a bit dated and cartoony to me compared with the far more realistic landscapes in TVT. I drove my T-34 into the woods and the trees cast shadows across the lands and are spread apart enough in most places that you can slowly drive your tank through them. Its something that has to be seen to believe how real it all looks!
Oddly enough TVT runs smoother for me and I have it graphically maxed out vs SF which is set on medium settings. What I dont understand are why the sytem requirments of TVT are higher than SF!

Lets get to the meat of the simulations, Tanks. In T-34 vs Tiger the driver has to watch his RPMs so as to not overheat his motor but at the same time if the RPMs drop too low your tank motor will stall. This has to be the most realistic tank driving simulator I have ever experianced and if It were just a tank driving simulator it would easily get ten stars! The tiger is slow and heavy and jerks almost to a standstill while your shifting gears and if your not carefull it is almost to easy to kill your motor, which adds to the realism in a combat situation. Also just like the real tiger you have to downshift alot to get this beast to turn. Try turning this beast at speed and it will just lazily veer off to the side your steering. Also turning tends to bog down your RPMs so you have to juice the gas a bit to spin her around. The veiw inside the tanks as well as out side is beautifull. So for the non combat portion of the sim I give it high marks. You can tell at one point in the development that the makers of TvT were going to take this Sim seriously.

Steel fury also has a fairly detailed driving style. Although it does come with some drivers aids if you so choose such as auto shifting steering the tanks is alot like, well steering WWII tanks. Short of the Tiger most WWII tanks had a friction lock style steering mechinism in that you pulled a lever for one side or the other and that side would drag or stop while the other kept on going eventually turning you. It wasnt a very accurate sytem like a car and most tanks driving down the road were constantly shifting to the left or right just so they could go straight! SF does this well and trying to drive a tank across something such as a narrow bridge is a little exciting as you fight to get it to turn just enough to go straight, which isnt easy by any means. Again a very well done tank driving simulator although TVT does it just a bit better I think. The tank graphics inside and out are also done very well. And so far both sims come close to about dead even.

This TVT video demonstrates the the beauty of the very natural looking terrain.


Comparing with SF


Now on to Combat.
TVT does this well in most regaurds but lacks in a few key areas.
The sighting system is an acurate model of the T-34 and Tiger and you really get the idea how much of an advantage the Germans had with there superior long range Zeiss optics. You can spot and engage targets easily out to 2400 meters in the Tiger with its 10X magnification but in the T-34 with its 4X magnification you have to get closer just to see your target which also is benificial in that your 85mm gun cant hurt a Tiger at far ranges anyway!

The major lacking in TVT vs SF is the lack of ability to controll your environment outside of your specific tank. SF has a system although somewhat broken and chaotic of controlling your squad of tanks and men and you can give orders to flank, or halt and even change formation on the fly. TVT sticks you in combat but there is no communication, No concept of how to complete your objective and no setting up your start point before battle so your just thrown out their in a feild somwhere and only trial and error will let you find out exactly where to go.

The shooting portion of both sims is good enough but TVT lacks those high impact hits and splinters flying off of the tank you just put a round through. No watching it jerk from the impact, no glancing shots skyrocketing into the air or ground. No big boom either. Its just rather anti climatic and feels rushed. But it is good nonetheless, Just not as good as it could have been. SF does this better and you can see small explosions where your round impacted, along with smoke and other added little effects at the point of impact.

TVT comes shipped with a whole whopping 6 missions for each side all played the same way every time. Shockingly it goes to show you just how rushed out the door this sim was, As I doubt that making 20 or 30 missions would have taken much time fom the developer. THe missions themselves are good in most respects but some of the missions even look rushed with vehicles getting stuck or just wandering with no regaurd to the enemy pouncing on them from their left flank. And if you do by chance go outside of the idea of the mission script then the results can be hilarious at the very least. Again SF does this much better but somehow manages to make one feel less connected to the situation than in TVT.

I have the feeling that TVT started out to be a benchmark of a Sim with vast minute details being exact while other trivial details are absent.

SF what it lacks in details it makes up for in substance. I think if T-34 was finished right it would stand on its own, Unfortunatly it doesnt look finished nor probably will it ever be.

I say get them both!

[Skybird]

Since you express criticism of many of TvT's shortcomings, but having both sims would not enable you to pick the best of both titles and combine them for a superior third title, so that you are still stuck with the shortcomings of the one you are currently running, I find a recommendation of "getting both" a little bit inconsistent, or not? Quite some younger players may have to be cautious regarding what they spend their limited pocket money for.

Considering the fact that Lighthouse seems to have gone bancrupt, TvT was rushed out indeed (and there also have been far more devastating criticism of it's flaws than your criticism!) , it's developer having a reputation for failing in support and longterm involvement, and the game not being supported while being in a state many players describe as "poor", there does not seem to be a future for TvT. Just compare the lighthouse forums for both titles. Getting SF is a question of taste and preferences (WWII), but while both forum communities are not the most active I've ever seen, the forum for SF still is more active than the almost dead TvT forum.

Therefore, if somebody wants a WWII title, I would warn him of getting TvT. Also consider that the developer of SF at least gives the impression to be more involved with having announced intentions for doing an SF2, having an addon on the ready for SF1, and currently running the advertising effort for a third game under developement, posted on this board as well.

[Freiwillige]

Well I say get them both because they both really have something to offer. Many complain of TVT but I am enjoying it alot. I have not had many problems people complain of and with some of the modders out there are working on fixing its problem spots.

If TVT never advanced beyond the point its at now, yes I would agree it has a short lease on life. But it is modable, It comes with the tools they used to make the game! Just nobody has figured out how to use them yet.

As is I would say that SF is the better of the two but also I find it a bit chaotic and some of the features just bug me and kill all of my immersion factor, Such as the magical squares that pop up on the horizon highlighting your objective. I would expect that from a playstation game!

TVT also has some impressive features nobody ever talks about, such as the auto driver, gunner, Commander. I like to drive and gun and leave the commander on auto. So in the end I still say get both. If you can afford only one, Get one now and one later! If I had to get one first, SF.

[Lieste]

I'm really puzzled why you object to a 'difficulty level' feature within SF (I understand the HUD cues are optional depending on degree of assistance), but are willing to overlook the general clumsiness of both the handling of these games' release (neither was in a fit state to be released by Lighthouse - mostly their fault from poor localisation for SF, but TvT seems unfinished and abandoned)

Both seem to have a fairly clunky (although possibly powerful?) scenario building process which can only hamper getting much good quality stuff made. Many attempts to get new maps and/or scenarios don't go smoothly.

Discussions around mission building should really be more about how to obtain the desired effect from the vehicles and troops available to put the player(s) into the story, rather than asking what incantations you must perform to get one vehicle onto the map. (IMO) Likewise for creating and adding new terrains - you shouldn't have to edit lots of files to get a new terrain imported and a simple test mission running - just add or edit the map, throw a few units into a scenario and start testing.

I think I'll sacrifice a few gear changes, and blocky but moving trees, for a robust and simple user interface.

[Freiwillige]

You hit the nail on the head! Although I find TVT's controll layout very usefull and intuative, SF's is a nightmare.

But agreed that the ability to add missions should have been priority and not just dumping the tools in your lap so to speak with no concept of how to use them. TVT comes with everything you need to make the game what you want but unfortunately they (The dev's) left no concept of how to use the overly advanced tools, and unless you went to school for this stuff you have no idea of how any of it works!

TVT I feel could have been the better of the two sims if it wasnt rushed and dumped and even just adding much more in the way of missions would have resolved some of the longevity issues. But lets face it, G5 just dumped this product and forced the desighners to rush it out before the gates closed or the sim was done.

SF on the other hand has a brighter future with much more support coming from the company.

TVT has a bright future as well if "and thats a big if", anybody can figure out how to add features to it with the tools provided. But most end users are dumping this as well which is a shame cause the game foundations are solid and enjoyable especially when you add MMO3 mod that rips away the game balancing they thru on and adds some semblance of historical capability's. I hope TVT doesnt get completly dumped by the community if only for the possibility's for the future.

[Vacillator]

Originally Posted by Lieste

Both seem to have a fairly clunky (although possibly powerful?) scenario building process which can only hamper getting much good quality stuff made. Many attempts to get new maps and/or scenarios don't go smoothly.

I have both.

SF's mission editor does take some time to get to grips with, but it is very powerful and there is support from individuals on various forums and indirectly from Graviteam staff.

In comparison, TvT's mission editing aspects are either inaccessible or incomplete, making them virtually impossible to use. In addition, there is no support other than from a few talented users.