[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

There is a TMO "patch" as part of the mod to prevent CTD. I have had no CTD's with this mod.

OK. I had with TMO 25 RSRDC OTC some CTDs with this mod and it was discussed in some thread (I don't remember where). Great you resolved the issue.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

OK. I had with TMO 25 RSRDC OTC some CTDs with this mod and it was discussed in some thread (I don't remember where). Great you resolved the issue.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo

Your issue may have been RSRD, possibly OTC. However, there was a fix put out to make the mod work with TMO and have included it. The mod has only been tested with TMO 2.5 Update BH but No CTD's with the mod setup suggested in the TMO 2.5 Update README.

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Your issue may have been RSRD, possibly OTC. However, there was a fix put out to make the mod work with TMO and have included it. The mod has only been tested with TMO 2.5 Update BH but No CTD's with the mod setup suggested in the TMO 2.5 Update README.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo

[Bubblehead1980]

Hey guys, of all the great feedback, have not heard a whole lot about the night surface attacks now possible in TMO , esp with large convoys in 1944, getting inside the convoys and attacking on surface. Share your experiences etc. I am running a test soon, may make some changes if needed.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Hey guys, of all the great feedback, have not heard a whole lot about the night surface attacks now possible in TMO , esp with large convoys in 1944, getting inside the convoys and attacking on surface. Share your experiences etc. I am running a test soon, may make some changes if needed.

we seem to be detected once we close to 5000 yds or so.
once we are detected, as you know, every ships starts to zig-zag and we become the target of the escorts.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

we seem to be detected once we close to 5000 yds or so.
once we are detected, as you know, every ships starts to zig-zag and we become the target of the escorts.

Hmm. Date? moonlight ? Fog? NO mods changing the visual sensors or sim.cfg settings ? Possible one of them has radar? never had them visually spot me that far out.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Hey guys, of all the great feedback, have not heard a whole lot about the night surface attacks now possible in TMO , esp with large convoys in 1944, getting inside the convoys and attacking on surface. Share your experiences etc. I am running a test soon, may make some changes if needed.

I am still in 43, late 43 - October. My patrol zone is area 11-B, near Formosa. I pick up a convoy by radar and went for it. Crystal clear sea, 0 wind, 0 waves (since I arrived near the patrol area), crescent moon.

3 rows convoy with 2 escorts, one in the rear, one in the front. Manage to get to 4000/3700 yards undetected.

But I had to end the game, so only after I pick up I can see if I can go even near.

By the way, deck awash tactic? Used in real life? In the game can be done and if so, will have any influence in the detection of the sub?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

I am still in 43, late 43 - October. My patrol zone is area 11-B, near Formosa. I pick up a convoy by radar and went for it. Crystal clear sea, 0 wind, 0 waves (since I arrived near the patrol area), crescent moon.

3 rows convoy with 2 escorts, one in the rear, one in the front. Manage to get to 4000/3700 yards undetected.

But I had to end the game, so only after I pick up I can see if I can go even near.

By the way, deck awash tactic? Used in real life? In the game can be done and if so, will have any influence in the detection of the sub?

Nice, so working it sounds like, let me know once you pick up the attack how it turns out.You are getting into the time period (late 43-1944) of primetime for the convoy battles, esp night surface attacks.


Decks awash, while used on occasion, was not used a lot of US subs in night surface attacks it seems, because it reduced the boats maneuverability on surface. US subs liked to hit the targets on surface at night, then if at all possible escape on surface to avoid being held down for hours and depth charged, while rest of ships escaped. Tactic was used more often when rescuing people from water, deploying rafts with troops, supplies, approaching shore to reduce visibility etc.German U boats liked to use the decks awash tactics more often in attacks if I recall.

While can use decks awash in the sim, it does not work as should for most part, select say 26 feet, boat takes too long to flood down and tends to "bounce" especially if have more than 1/3 speed. I did make a little mod where when hit the "radar depth" key, boat floods down to 26-27 feet(Depending on class of boat ), may include it in next release.

Overall, would not use tactic in combat unless must and not necessary to pull off night surface attacks given the changes in the TMO Update.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Decks awash, tactic was used more often when rescuing people from water, deploying rafts with troops, supplies, approaching shore to reduce visibility etc.

I did make a little mod where when hit the "radar depth" key, boat floods down to 26-27 feet (Depending on class of boat), may include it in next release.

Overall, would not use tactic in combat unless must and not necessary to pull off night surface attacks given the changes in the TMO Update.

I'd say, definitely include that in the next release... since there are objectives missions of import, on rescues, agent/troop insert, supply drops, pickup missions, & having that ability to go decks awash... would be a nice thing to have handy.

Yeah, the U-boats did use a more decks awash approach, but... given the nature of the beast & the why's & where fore's for their using that tactic more so, than the U.S. counterparts did.... understandable, when they were literally getting their aft sides handed back to them, with an attrition rate of 3 of 4 not coming back... which climbed to those rates... the later 1/2 to 1/3 of the war.



M. M.

p.s. On the tactic's of night surfaced attacking... haven't really dove much into testing that capability, near as much as I'd like to or should. Still more used to the mind set of U-boat attacking... well... given the more push to U-boats with the entirety of the SH lineup. That & given 4's more.. versatile capability... to skipper an I class in the IJN (not entirely a complete set up, as yet... mind ya. ) to a T class sub skipper, in the Med.... to a soviet skipper... well... at any rate, testing I have had on that... was good... Know that on a merchie... was able to get within... 5-600 yards off their side, before I opened up... that was a solo by the way... & got close in, undetected. Of course... detected, after I opened up on them, from literal point blank range. Dark night, little to no fog, no rain... looked about to see the moon & wasn't one I could see in sight... Oh, & it wasn't stationary, it was chugging along at about... 4-6 knots... along the coast. Think I was around Formosa (Taiwan, nowadays, I believe...) either there.. or Hainan... somewhere in that general vicinity. Orders I had, was to scout out a port & await further orders, as I recall & was early on, like mid late Dec. of '41... maybe 1st week of Jan. '42. ported out of Manilla... which, got messaging that it had been abandoned & to return to Surabaya at patrols end.

1 question though... do the settings have to be so dark, as you can't even see details on the crewman, standing right there, practically on top of you... just curious... way it seems to Me, is like watching a light box puppet show, no details to the character... just a flat black cutout that you can tell is supposed to be a person, but that's it. That even includes the boat itself...as I said... just wondering about that.

Have been out in the country, away from city lights... & on a moonless night, it's dark, but after a bit... after the eyes adjust, can make out some details on things around about 6' from you... but much past that, details tend to get a bit... washed out, so that you can tell what something is by the general shape... but not see finer detail's to them.

Talking a country guy here... grew up in a rinky town, that if ya blinked, you'd miss it... it was that small.

That said, haven't really been out on the ocean, so no experience on how it'd be there... can just go on what I do know... for what it's worth.



M. M.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

I'd say, definitely include that in the next release... since there are objectives missions of import, on rescues, agent/troop insert, supply drops, pickup missions, & having that ability to go decks awash... would be a nice thing to have handy.

Yeah, the U-boats did use a more decks awash approach, but... given the nature of the beast & the why's & where fore's for their using that tactic more so, than the U.S. counterparts did.... understandable, when they were literally getting their aft sides handed back to them, with an attrition rate of 3 of 4 not coming back... which climbed to those rates... the later 1/2 to 1/3 of the war.



M. M.

p.s. On the tactic's of night surfaced attacking... haven't really dove much into testing that capability, near as much as I'd like to or should. Still more used to the mind set of U-boat attacking... well... given the more push to U-boats with the entirety of the SH lineup. That & given 4's more.. versatile capability... to skipper an I class in the IJN (not entirely a complete set up, as yet... mind ya. ) to a T class sub skipper, in the Med.... to a soviet skipper... well... at any rate, testing I have had on that... was good... Know that on a merchie... was able to get within... 5-600 yards off their side, before I opened up... that was a solo by the way... & got close in, undetected. Of course... detected, after I opened up on them, from literal point blank range. Dark night, little to no fog, no rain... looked about to see the moon & wasn't one I could see in sight... Oh, & it wasn't stationary, it was chugging along at abut... 4-6 knots... along the coast. Think I was around Formosa (Taiwan, nowadays, I believe...) either there.. or Hainan... somewhere in that general vicinity. Orders I had, was to scout out a port & await further orders, as I recall & was early on, like mid late Dec. of '41... maybe 1st week of Jan. '42. ported out of Manilla... which, got messaging that it had been abandoned & to return to Surabaya at patrols end.

1 question though... do the settings have to be so dark, as you can't even see details on the crewman, standing right there, practically on top of you... just curious... way it seems to Me, is like watching a light box puppet show, no details to the character... just a flat black cutout that you can tell is supposed to be a person, but that's it. That even includes the boat itself...as I said... just wondering about that.

Have been out in the country, away from city lights... & on a moonless night, it's dark, but after a bit... after the eyes adjust, can make out some details on things around about 6' from you... but much past that, details tend to get a bit... washed out, so that you can tell what something is by the general shape... but not see finer detail's to them.

Talking a country guy here... grew up in a rinky town, that if ya blinked, you'd miss it... it was that small.

That said, haven't really been out on the ocean, so no experience on how it'd be there... can just go on what I do know... for what it's worth.



M. M.

Well, as someone who who grew up on the ocean, boating sailing, deep sea trips etc, can testify it gets rather dark on open ocean with no light source, often can be difficult to see even other people on the boat when are pretty close to you, especially if wearing darker clothing (as watch crew would be) see their outline more than anything. WW II subs and ships were running blacked out, even on bridge no lights. Of course, moonlight changes visibility, fog level, position on earth, time of night etc.

I believe if the nights were any lighter in TMO Update would be back in situation where can't pull off the attacks and would be far too light for when out on the open ocean, in most cases, such as how stock etc are. A quick fix is to adjust the gamma, where it makes the sky appear light to player, easier to see things at night, but does not lighten the night and alter how the AI operates.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Well, as someone who who grew up on the ocean, boating sailing, deep sea trips etc, can testify it gets rather dark on open ocean with no light source, often can be difficult to see even other people on the boat when are pretty close to you, especially if wearing darker clothing (as watch crew would be) see their outline more than anything. WW II subs and ships were running blacked out, even on bridge no lights. Of course, moonlight changes visibility, fog level, position on earth, time of night etc.

I believe if the nights were any lighter in TMO Update would be back in situation where can't pull off the attacks and would be far too light for when out on the open ocean, in most cases, such as how stock etc are. A quick fix is to adjust the gamma, where it makes the sky appear light to player, easier to see things at night, but does not lighten the night and alter how the AI operates.

Gotcha... as I mentioned... had never really been out on the waters... (meaning oceans...) for any length of time, even at night... so wouldn't be aware of that varied a difference as on land. What's that expression... ya learn something new, every day... even if ya don't realize ya did, sometimes.

Goes in hand with what My Granddad said... life, is a continuous learning experience... you never stop learning, except when you pass away & may not stop, even after you pass on... for all we know.

Hmm... haven't really messed about with the gamma... will see of testing/tweaking that... thanks. Always knew about the bright factor... adjusting the brightness or darkness, through the monitor settings... but, only knew of gamma but never really messed (adjusted/tweaked) with it.



M. M.

[Xboxman523]

Good news friends! The issue I've been having with CTD's when using the rec manual has been solved. S7strikeback has helped created a fix for an issue that was affecting both FOTRS and TMO. I believe it will be incorporated into the next version of this mod.

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Hey guys, of all the great feedback, have not heard a whole lot about the night surface attacks now possible in TMO , esp with large convoys in 1944, getting inside the convoys and attacking on surface. Share your experiences etc. I am running a test soon, may make some changes if needed.

We are not enough agressive...

Can you do a single mission with a convoy and in night? More easy to find than in campaign.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Xboxman523

Good news friends! The issue I've been having with CTD's when using the rec manual has been solved. S7strikeback has helped created a fix for an issue that was affecting both FOTRS and TMO. I believe it will be incorporated into the next version of this mod.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

We are not enough agressive...

Can you do a single mission with a convoy and in night? More easy to find than in campaign.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

I could do that after next patrol (currently on patrol), but are pretty easy to locate in the campaign. Fall 1943, per history, is when Japanese get their act together to some degree with convoys. The HI (Singapore-Imari, Imari-Singapore) convoys start up on regular basis. Convoy activity increases as time goes on.

June 1944-December 1944...Singapore-Japan routes,South China Sea and especially Luzon Straits is ideal place to find the large convoys can get inside the columns and take full advantage of night surface attack. In reality, this is when the tactic really came into its own. In the forthcoming update, will have AI wolfpack mates that will attack as well. Many convoys are "historic" convoys, which spawn just once...they arrive at historic date and times...for example Parche's legendary "Ramages Rampage" on 31 July 1944, can find that convoy, and many more. There are random convoys that spawn on a cycle as well in this time period. Traffic will slow down in October as the Singapore-Japan traffic shifts to the Indochina/China coast, but the TAMA and MATA( Tako-Manila, and Manila-Takao, Formosa) convoys continue running (as they did per history) until December 1944.