Immersive techniques for the true subsimmer!

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

I like to get both the course and speed from where I'm shadowing, be it port, starboard, or in front. "Crossing the T" tends to be to dangerous for my tastes, radar or not; more movement = more chance of being spotted, i.e. I like 90 degree attacks too, so range/aob isn't relevant.
I don't bother trying it from astern; if you're going to attack you're going to have to move "up" anyway so I just do it then.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

Yeah that’s absolutely perfect in my opinion. I’m always harping on the stuff over in the Wolfpack community, it’s amazing how many people fiddle with range calculations, IDing everything, and angle on bow calculations by aspect ratio, all that stuff when all they need is this. Especially in that sim where, for the moment, targets are guaranteed not to change course or speed.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

Yeah that’s absolutely perfect in my opinion. I’m always harping on the stuff over in the Wolfpack community, it’s amazing how many people fiddle with range calculations, IDing everything, and angle on bow calculations by aspect ratio, all that stuff when all they need is this. Especially in that sim where, for the moment, targets are guaranteed not to change course or speed.

Exactly. Keep it simple. Some folks like to make things more complex than needed, which is fine, but it's not necessary or even completely historically accurate.

[Tonci87]

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

How thick is that book?

Would you personally be able to visually identify a ship with the help of this book? Or is it just too much information to be practicable?

It has ca. 800 pages and the tables are very very small printed.


Yeah you can work with the silhouette quite well in TWoS.

Its the ultimate immersive object for me. And everytime the solution worked a have to show respect to the great and exact work of the modders.
In this Book there is a historical "how to use tutorial" in the beginning.



If you write me your E-Mail per PM I can give you an example. But its in german language of course.



In many books about the experiance on real patrols it is referred to the gröner handbook.
It was put to a Marinedienstvorschrift in 1942 (M.Dv.Nr. 135). The reprint is from 1976.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Exactly. Keep it simple. Some folks like to make things more complex than needed, which is fine, but it's not necessary or even completely historically accurate.

Originally Posted by Tonci87

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.

Originally Posted by ON WAR

Everything in war is very simple. But the simplest thing is difficult.
Carl von Clausewitz

[bstanko6]

I’m proud of how this thread has grown! Everyone has contributed so much great stuff, and keeping on track with the theme of the title! Thank you folks.

[Noonai]

Small excerpt of my ongoing 1st war patrol report.

U-17.jpg

I find it very immersive to narrate the events and helps me think better.

I am heading back to Kiel after 4 days patrolling. Date is September 4th.
Still learning this game with the help of all of you.

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

I’m proud of how this thread has grown! Everyone has contributed so much great stuff, and keeping on track with the theme of the title! Thank you folks.

I tought of it in another thread.
IRL the subcrew was trying to find out what was the ships name and what was the loading.
If you write your own KTB this information would be very great too.
SH3 Commander solve this by random names and Cargo etc. For me this was a very immersive element.

How could you add this aspect to TWoS?
Is there an opportunity to add this in the game by intercept radio messages? Like IRL the ships send a SOS message when they were hit often with its real position and name. This was one method to find out the ships name. The other was interrogation of survivors. Of course these two things were not always possible and succsessful. Is there an idea of implementing this in a game? Perhaps only by a pop up message that has a 33% chance to pop up when you reach the sinking place.



I asked this in another thread about SH5 modding but what does the option "Inform of destroyed messages" in the radio messages options mean? I have never recieved any of this messages i think. Does this feature work?
Perhaps you could use this feature for the idea of find more out about your victim ship.

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by Jojojung

I tought of it in another thread.
IRL the subcrew was trying to find out what was the ships name and what was the loading.
If you write your own KTB this information would be very great too.
SH3 Commander solve this by random names and Cargo etc. For me this was a very immersive element.

How could you add this aspect to TWoS?
Is there an opportunity to add this in the game by intercept radio messages? Like IRL the ships send a SOS message when they were hit often with its real position and name. This was one method to find out the ships name. The other was interrogation of survivors. Of course these two things were not always possible and succsessful. Is there an idea of implementing this in a game? Perhaps only by a pop up message that has a 33% chance to pop up when you reach the sinking place.



I asked this in another thread about SH5 modding but what does the option "Inform of destroyed messages" in the radio messages options mean? I have never recieved any of this messages i think. Does this feature work?
Perhaps you could use this feature for the idea of find more out about your victim ship.

Sometimes you will receive a radio message when you sink a ship. It is rare though.

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

Sometimes you will receive a radio message when you sink a ship. It is rare though.

Does anyone know how this mechanism works in TWoS and how to modify it?

[bstanko6]

In real life, the could never confirm sinkings until they got home and received intelligence from spy’s, radio, and such.


Their KTB entry of ship and tonnage was a “guesstimate” until it was confirmed later.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

In real life, the could never confirm sinkings until they got home and received intelligence from spy’s, radio, and such.


Their KTB entry of ship and tonnage was a “guesstimate” until it was confirmed later.

And in some cases BdU just accepted the claims without verification for propaganda, political, etc. reasons.

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

In real life, the could never confirm sinkings until they got home and received intelligence from spy’s, radio, and such.


Their KTB entry of ship and tonnage was a “guesstimate” until it was confirmed later.

Yes your right! But they tryed to figure out more information about the ship by interceps and interrogation. Many ships were paintet with wrong names and the survivors made incorrect information about name and cargo and so on.

You can read about this in many KTBs and in a lot of eyewitness reports. There was a addition to the Marinedienstvorschrift 135 "Suchliste für Schiffsnamen" (List of Shipnames) printed in 1943 to cover changing of names for existing ships. In the foreword it is said that this list (its more likley a book instead) should help to identify the single ship when the ships are renamed or when incomplete names.

This was used to fool the enemy.


Would be very great to implement the hole matter in TWoS!