Video emerges of Minneapolis police killing a citizen - - Riots

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

The level of methamphetamine is irrelevant - it's a red herring. The levels of cannabinoids, fentanyl, and free morphine are what is important because all the of them are a cardiovascular depressant. Combine all of them in someone with an already compromised cardiovascular system, and you risk coma or death *regardless* of being proned out, sleeping, or whatever. Additionally, Floyd made *multiple* false claims of distress before being taken out of the vehicle that likely led the officers to treat any true claims of distress the same.

Could/should the police have administered NARCAN? Sure, but that's predicated on administering it to a no combative person.

Go look at the additional bodycam footage. You'll see the truth is significantly different than the media is portraying.

What you fail to understand is that in law, there is a simple tenant that you take people where you find them. Look it up. Does it take 4 officers to to hold down someone who is already restrained and handcuffed ? I think not. By most accounts, George Floyd was probably dead for 3 minutes before Chauvin took his knee off his Floyd's neck.

Even the pulmonary Physician who testified stated that a healthy person could not withstand the amount of pressure that Chauvin used in this arrest. This tells me your drug argument is without merit.

Even Chauvin's own officers crossed " the thin blue line " to condemn Chauvin's actions. I think this was a bit of damage control on behalf of the police dept there. However, fantasies and smoke screens won't change the fact that Floyd was murdered. Pure and simple.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

That's a bit of an oversimplification isn't it? There are Federal, State, County, and city/town laws, rules and regulations, and those are further split into infractions, misdemeanors, or felonies. Those are further split into classes such as A,B,C, or I,II,III, etc.

In the case of possessing/passing counterfeit money, that is a Federal Felony and in this case police were required by statute to arrest Floyd and charge him with forgery.

To illustrate my point:



While police have discretionary powers (taking into custody vs. a ticket or citation) while enforcing laws, there are some laws that by statute require arrest.

That they are supposed to arrest someone by statute doesn't mean that they always do so. If I have to fill out a bunch of paperwork for a collar that I'm not going to get credit for anyway, and the person in question is cooperative and didn't know that the money is counterfeit, I'm gonna find some other thing. Have him throw the crumpled up bill on the ground and write a ticket for littering...

I've been pulled over for speeding before when I was but a wee lad. I knew I was speeding. The cop knew it. I wasn't truculently assertive of my rights. I had my license, registration, and insurance card in order. He wrote me a $40 ticket for "obstructed view" for my EZpass holder instead of a $200 ticket and points. Compare that to the all-too-often stop where the cop gets attitude, the car isn't registered or the driver has a suspended license and warrants, the driver doesn't comply and ends up reaching for a weapon or takes off requiring the cop to give chase...

Just behave when dealing with the cops.

[mapuc]

I have, as an outsider, no right to point fingers or telling you how it should be done.

I can tell you how I feel following the news here and on CNN and a little from the trial-I feel sad.

Yes He was overdoing his job-But it feels like his colleague in order not to lose face has turned they back on him.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Be it as it may, if you kneel on someone and he is obviously not in the condition to fight anyone, and he tells you that he cannot breathe, and you continue to kneel on his chest for nine minutes, is that the correct action to be taken?

There are certain approved methods to compell compliance. Kneeling on a suspects body is one of them. In my opion based on my training it is not the correct action to continue such pressure once the situation is under control. Once cuffed the threat has been removed. The next step is to provide first aid if it is required. When someone complains they cannot breath its also the officer job to look into that, not ignore it while continuing downward pressure on a man's neck. I think what Chauvan did was wrong and against any departments policy and lead to the death of the suspect.

[Onkel Neal]

Don't get me wrong, imo the cop contributed to his demise with a stupid move. I'm not a legal expert so I don't have an opinion on what charge should stick but he's guilty of something along the lines of neglect. There was no sensible reason to stay on the criminal's neck with no regard for his status.

I agree with Rockstar

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

That they are supposed to arrest someone by statute doesn't mean that they always do so. If I have to fill out a bunch of paperwork for a collar that I'm not going to get credit for anyway, and the person in question is cooperative and didn't know that the money is counterfeit, I'm gonna find some other thing. Have him throw the crumpled up bill on the ground and write a ticket for littering...

I've been pulled over for speeding before when I was but a wee lad. I knew I was speeding. The cop knew it. I wasn't truculently assertive of my rights. I had my license, registration, and insurance card in order. He wrote me a $40 ticket for "obstructed view" for my EZpass holder instead of a $200 ticket and points. Compare that to the all-too-often stop where the cop gets attitude, the car isn't registered or the driver has a suspended license and warrants, the driver doesn't comply and ends up reaching for a weapon or takes off requiring the cop to give chase...

Just behave when dealing with the cops.

And therein is the difference, speeding can be an infraction, a misdemeanor, or a felony depending on circumstances, hence the LEO's discretion on your ticket. Possession of counterfeit currency is a felony no matter the circumstances. It is then up to the court to decide whether a crime has been committed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Don't get me wrong, imo the cop contributed to his demise with a stupid move. I'm not a legal expert so I don't have an opinion on what charge should stick but he's guilty of something along the lines of neglect. There was no sensible reason to stay on the criminal's neck with no regard for his status.

I agree with Rockstar

Concur. Manslaughter would be the charge I believe. However, was there malice aforethought making it murder? Did the officer know the knee to the neck could/would kill this individual? He then made the move to do so and kept it there until death? IMO, the cop went way beyond just excessive force that resulted in death.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

And therein is the difference, speeding can be an infraction, a misdemeanor, or a felony depending on circumstances, hence the LEO's discretion on your ticket. Possession of counterfeit currency is a felony no matter the circumstances. It is then up to the court to decide whether a crime has been committed.

So who's to blame for counterfeiting money that resulted in an encounter with the police to begin with?

There are multiple things that Floyd could have done differently to change the outcome. Don't do drugs. Don't pass funny money. Comply with the police officer's commands.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

There are multiple things that Floyd could have done differently to change the outcome. Don't do drugs. Don't pass funny money. Comply with the police officer's commands.

Agree 100%. But that is a separate issue in relation to the officer's stupid move.

[Buddahaid]

Guilty of all charges.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

So who's to blame for counterfeiting money that resulted in an encounter with the police to begin with?

George Floyd is not on trial, he's dead. We'll never know if he was to blame because he will never have the same opportunity as Chauvin to defend himself.

There are multiple things that Floyd could have done differently to change the outcome. Don't do drugs. Don't pass funny money. Comply with the police officer's commands.

None of which have anything to do with the death of Floyd. The prosecution pointed out that it was because someone was not following procedure and training pressing their knee into the neck of a hancuffed and therefore compliant suspect. If you watched the video you would see that even a nine year old girl knew that as did 8 other eyewitnesses. I saw the video and came to the same conclusion as that nine year old child.

They also pointed out that when police take custody of a person they assume responsiblity for the health and welfare of the suspect.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

So who's to blame for counterfeiting money that resulted in an encounter with the police to begin with?

There are multiple things that Floyd could have done differently to change the outcome. Don't do drugs. Don't pass funny money. Comply with the police officer's commands.

Here is another flaw in your logic. Do you have some evidence we don't know about regarding the alleged fake $20 bill. By the way, where is that alleged bill anyhow ? If George Floyd did pass a fake bill, did George know it was fake ? Was evidence turned up that showed George Floyd had a printing press and was manufacturing them? It's unreasonable to believe George Floyd just manufactured one fake $20. Why not a $50 or a $100

You or I or anyone else could have unknowingly passed a fake bill and never knew it ? Be honest, do you inspect every bill you have or get. Would you know what to look for ?

If in fact, George Floyd did pass a fake bill, then an arrest would be appropriate. This guarantees those accused of a crime are given their day in court for the State, I repeat, the State to prove their case. The state has the burden of proof, not the individual. I seem to remember reading somewhere that U.S citizens have the right to due process

You seem to think it's okay for police to act as judge, jury and executioner. Well,apparently the jury that convicted Chauvin of on all counts didn't buy into your incredibly biased logic as none of us will either.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

George Floyd is not on trial, he's dead. We'll never know if he was to blame because he will never have the same opportunity as Chauvin to defend himself.


None of which have anything to do with the death of Floyd. The prosecution pointed out that it was because someone was not following procedure and training pressing their knee into the neck of a hancuffed and therefore compliant suspect. If you watched the video you would see that even a nine year old girl knew that as did 8 other eyewitnesses. I saw the video and came to the same conclusion as that nine year old child.

They also pointed out that when police take custody of a person they assume responsiblity for the health and welfare of the suspect.

The encounter would not have occurred if Floyd hadn't have pass funny money. The encounter might have been peaceful had he not resisted arrest. His cardiovascular system might not have failed had he not had 3x as much fentanyl as is considered lethal. Floyd controlled whether or not he encountered law enforcement at all that day.

This'll get overturned on appeal. That the verdict came back guilty to begin with is evidence that the jury was terrified of having their houses vandalized or of being attacked. Enjoy mob rule.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

What you fail to understand is that in law, there is a simple tenant there you take people where you find them. Look it up. Does it take 4 officers to to hold down someone who is already restrained and handcuffed ? I think not. By most accounts, George Floyd was probably dead for 3 minutes before Chauvin took his knee off his Floyd's neck.

Even the pulmonary Physcian who testified stated that a healthy person could not withstand the amount of pressure that Chauvin used in this arrest. This tells me your drug argument is without merit.

Even Chauvin's own officers crossed " the thin blue line " to condemn Chauvin's actions. I think this was a bit of damage control on behalf of the police dept there. However, fantasies and smoke screens won't change the fact that Floyd was murdered. Pure and simple.

The evidence was crystal-clear that Chsuvin's knee was in his shoulder/back nowhere near an area that would restrict his breathing or heart function alone. A severely depressed cardiovascular system in someine with cardiovascular disease is going to lead to a bad outcome when that person exerts themselves resisting arrest.

Regardless of your health situation, if you just behave when being arrested you won't end up dying.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

The evidence was crystal-clear that Chsuvin's knee was in his shoulder/back nowhere near an area that would restrict his breathing or heart function alone. A severely depressed cardiovascular system in someine with cardiovascular disease is going to lead to a bad outcome when that person exerts themselves resisting arrest.

Regardless of your health situation, if you just behave when being arrested you won't end up dying.

Apparently you didn't read or understand what I said. A healthy person will die from having their oxygen cut off. The Physicians have said the same thing. Again, in law, you take people as they are. Chauvin killed Floyd and has now been convicted.