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Old 07-02-2019, 03:39 PM   #1
Sharpshooter
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Icon5 Wolfpack 0.18 Torpedo run before turn problem

"Torpedo gyro is now activated after 200 meters."

This feels... strange. Is it realistic?

According to http://www.tvre.org/en/gyro-angled-torpedoes, the initial run before starting a turn is somewhere between 9.5-15m, depending on the type of torpedo. Their turning radius differ too.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter View Post
"Torpedo gyro is now activated after 200 meters."


This feels... strange. Is it realistic?


According to http://www.tvre.org/en/gyro-angled-torpedoes, the initial run is before starting a turn is somewhere between 9.5-15m, depending on the type of torpedo. Their turning radius differ too.
My hunch is they meant arming distance, at least I hope so!
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:36 PM   #3
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After multiple testing, I can confirm they run, repeatedly 235m before turning on a 45m radius turn onto the gyro angle.

I too believe the devs got confused on this and meant to alter the arming distance.

This is going to torpedo (pun intended) the run into the convoy between columns and hip shoot everything.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:45 PM   #4
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The TDC takes the turn into account so as long as the shooting solution is accurate the shots will be as accurate as before.







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Old 07-02-2019, 07:59 PM   #5
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I’m a bit puzzled because I thought the turn occurred after 10 or so meters IRL. Why the decision to extend it? A very close range 60 to 90 deg angled shot is now likely going to be impossible now due to parallax.

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Old 07-02-2019, 09:21 PM   #6
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Piggybacking on Sharpshooter’s post - http://www.tvre.org/en/gyro-angled-torpedoes

“When the gyro angle is 90º the following torpedoes have an advance equal to:
G7a and G7e: 104,5 m”

So that forward movement is taking the turn radius into account, which at a 90 deg gyro angle is the maximum turn radius that will occur. Now, our in-game fish won’t even have TURNED until twice that whole distance, which has huge implications as far as angled attacks go. If I have a target passing me going bows opposite directions and I’m 300-400 meters off its track, I can’t shoot it, because the parallax caused by such a long pre-turn advance makes it physically impossible.

Is there a reason for this change? This eliminates or severely limits the use of historical tactics (such as running into the front of convoys and shooting close-range angled shots).
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:56 AM   #7
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Can you test that setup in the training mode ( so you can see the torpedo tracks)?
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
Can you test that setup in the training mode ( so you can see the torpedo tracks)?
Will do Neal. I’m out of town all week unfortunately but will test when back next week.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
Can you test that setup in the training mode ( so you can see the torpedo tracks)?
Neal; when I posted above to confirm the extraordinarily long run before turn, that was because I'd spent an hour in the training mission with the solution turned on and I MEASURED EVERY TORP.

They all turned at around 235-245 metres EVERY TIME, with a turn radius of 45 metres.

PRIOR to this new patch, they ran for about 34 metres before turning, with about the same turn radius.

So the difference between 0.17c and 0.18 is 6.91 times LONGER.

What more evidence do you still require?

I can't believe this was the intention; I'm convinced they meant to make the torpedoes ARM after 200+ metres, but they've gotten confused and changed the wrong parameter.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:36 PM   #10
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yes i can confirm. what was mentioned. i was on with said named person.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:46 PM   #11
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I understand you. Does it affect accuracy?
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:21 PM   #12
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I haven’t been able to test a near-90 gyro angle 300-400 m shot, but I don’t think it will be possible anymore, just don’t see how it would. Torpedo can’t turn in time for that now and will be playing “catchup” at a highly-unfavorable impact angle.

The fact that German fish turned after 10m was a HUGE tactical advantage of the technology, and was in keeping with the German doctrine and practice of using the flexibility the TDC provided to shoot minimum range shots at large gyro angles (assuming targeting data was solid).

I would like to understand the reason for the change.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:46 PM   #13
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If it’s to be modeled accurately, the forward advance of the G7e (and G7a for that matter) was 104.5 m for a 90 gyro angle shot. That’s a straight run of 9.5 m then a turn with a radius of 95m.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
I understand you. Does it affect accuracy?
Good idea, I'll run a test at a close range shot (the type I'd usually attempt) and see if it's all gone to pot.

However, of course, I no longer have access to the previous version, so I can't show you the comparison, so anecdotal evidence will have to suffice either way.

I'll PM you the results, as this isn't really the thread for this, this was supposed to just be for dev's to put update notices...
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:47 PM   #15
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Icon5 Wolfpack 0.18 Torpedo run before turn problem

So, in the 'Development Updates' thread there is a conversation about the extreme and out of the blue change to the torpedo run before the gyro angle turn.

To prove the point, I used the historical technique of running between columns headfirst and firing left and right at close by ships.

I mimicked this in Wolfpack 0.18 using the Training scenario to enable the true information on the map.

In the linked video you will see I set up a perfect head on shot. I fired when the target ship is about 60 degree bearing on the periscope, on a parallel course with an abeam distance of just 420m

I fire with the scope pointing at midships on the target ship.

The torpedo runs about 230m before doing a 45m radius hard turn 130 degrees to the right in order to try and hit the ship.

As such it only just clips the rudder area of the ship which has a length of 124m, which means due to the massive parallax error incurred because of the extreme torpedo run, it's hitting about 60m behind where you're aiming.

Previous to the 0.18 patch, the torpedo run before turn was about 34m with the same radius.

It's not increased by a factor of almost 6.2!!

To hit midships in this historically accurate type of approach you need to be aiming ahead of the bow of the ship!?!

Below is the link to my youtube video showing this and two screen shots showing the torpedo run and the 130 degree turn it had to make.







I believe this is a mistake and it was meant to be that the torpedo ARMED over 200m, not turned onto Gyro Angle.

I hope this gets fixed soon as it's a major problem to my kind of approach / tactics.
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