SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > Silent Hunter 4: Wolves of the Pacific
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2019, 10:35 AM   #1
Skipper44
Swabbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Esquimalt, BC, Canada
Posts: 13
Downloads: 21
Uploads: 0
Default Guide to the Opening Phase of the War?

Does anyone have some pointers for operating in the Asiatic Fleet, December '41 start?

I usually take out a S Boat, if fleet boat tactics are different please say so.
I use either FOTRSU or RFB + RSRDC with the Air Strikes Mod but I'm assuming the general principles are the same.

- On the first day of the war should I try to catch the Japanese landings off Apam, Vigan and Rosario?

- Should I venture into shallow waters to interdict the landings or wait offshore?

- With the slower speed, lower endurance and lack of radar on the S Boat, how do I patrol, intercept reported task forces and make contact?




- After the Japanese have landed, is there a logistics chain from Formosa to the PI? If so, where do they disembark prior to capturing Manilla?

- How long should I operate off the PI before moving south the evade the Japanese advance?

- How should I pursue the DEI campaign?



- Is it safe to refuel at Balikpapan?

- Should I operate East or West of Borneo?

- Where am I likely to make contact with Japanese forces?

- Who has air supremacy at this phase of the war and is it safe to operate on the surface during daylight hours?

I'd appreciate any pointers. I'm finding this dynamic phase of the war much more challenging than 42-43 where I can leisurely take a Fleet Boat or S Boat to choke points and sink merchants patrol after patrol without much changing.
Skipper44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 12:52 PM   #2
propbeanie
CTD - it's not just a job
 
propbeanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The Crossroads of Mid-America
Posts: 5,671
Downloads: 294
Uploads: 1


Default

The US lost all semblance of "air superiority" in the Asiatic theater on December 8th, 1941 by the early afternoon because of a lack of commitment. It seems that no one knew what to do, so most of the B-17s and P-40s that had just been shipped into the Philippines were caught on the ground. Cavite Naval Base was basically destroyed as an operational facility on December 10th, 1941, again from complacency, but also a lack of any air cover. Thereafter, it was "Retreat!"... The Otus and Holland retreated South, while the Canopus went to the Manila docks and was camouflaged in an attempt to look like a part of the dock. Subs were submerged by day, and did maintenance work by night for the next couple of weeks. By Christmas, it was decided that Manila Harbor was no place to be, so the Canopus was moved to Mariveles, and was then scuttled the night of April 8-9, 1942. However, the last of the subs serviced there were gone by the New Year.

Most of the Asiatic Fleet subs were unsuccessful with pressing home attacks. The Sugar boats had Mark 10 torps, which while more reliable than the 14s, still had a tendency to run deep ("Live" warheads). Combine that with pre-war US sub training and the use of Sonar "targeting", and you had the recipe for disaster. So if you want to be "historical", you make some attacks, but miss with just about everything you shoot at. Mis-identify a ship, set the torps too deep, etc., or just plain avoid attacks. Read about some of the attempts at penetrating Lingayen Gulf though - which has deep spots - and you can see the issues they had, especially with the Sugar boats. Even the fellows that went in to attack would have mechanical failures of every imaginable type, even some that were unimaginable, and its a wonder any of them made it to Soerabaja or Darwin.

The US subs were ordered to do "periscope patrols" during daylight hours, where you run the boat at 100+ foot depth (which was considered "deep" at that time), and come up every 15-30 minutes for a quick look-see, then go back down. They were even restricted on the use of the surface at night, in that they were not supposed to surface while the moon was out. That would limit an S-Boat severely, especially in light of the fact that half of the time, they only had one engine available, and sometimes, they'd be dead in the water with a diesel failure on one, and an electrical failure on the other... couldn't even stand still and charge their batteries - which were old and worn-out also... Recommended reading for all of the above, of course, is "Silent Victory" by Clay Blair, Jr., in spite of more "modern" revelations and the rescinding of former "Top Secret" status on some documents.

The game allows you much more leeway in what you do, and not following orders will not result in any brig time. Just so long as you sink something and score some renown points. Surface patrolling is the fastest / easiest way to go, but with an S-Boat and no radar, you do NOT want to be seen by airplanes, so an immediate crash dive is called for upon sighting one. Marking it on the map, and then coming back up 15-30 minutes later, depending upon the circumstances, and then continuing on the surface. lurker did a really good job of researching ship movements in the area, so you can either do as ordered, or hunt where you want to, based upon historical traffic. Either way, sinking something and getting away while in the early Philippine theatre will be two different stories...
__________________

"...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna
propbeanie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 01:15 PM   #3
Skipper44
Swabbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Esquimalt, BC, Canada
Posts: 13
Downloads: 21
Uploads: 0
Default

That was a really good breakdown. Thank you.

While retreating from the PI, would you refuel at Balikpapan or make straight for Surabaya and would you be retreating directly or conducting a "fighting withdrawal" on either side of the Borneo coast?

Generally, is the situation in the Dutch East Indies as chaotic and desperate or should I rally once I am starting a patrol from Surabaya?
Skipper44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2019, 01:42 PM   #4
propbeanie
CTD - it's not just a job
 
propbeanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The Crossroads of Mid-America
Posts: 5,671
Downloads: 294
Uploads: 1


Default

Yes, DEI is just as much, if not more so on the chaotic side of things. Very dangerous situation, since by the time of the Java attack, the Japanese had Indo-China, Malaya, Philippines, including Davao Gulf, and could come from several different directions at one time, which they did.

Balikpapan is still tenable into January, 1942 in RSRDC, so if you are conducting a patrol while retreating, which most boats did, unless they had restricting mechanical failures, some did stop at Balikpapan during during their withdrawal, with one even doing a short "rest period" of about 7 days while repairs were made. In real life, the location was under constant observation and then attack, as Borneo, Celebes and other nearby areas were attacked and taken. If you want to "play" it like most of the US skippers did, you'd come in for fuel and torpedoes, if available, and you would NOT terminate the patrol. Even a couple of the boats that went into Soerabaja and Port Darwin went right back out within two days, and did more patrols, sometimes with new skippers ...
__________________

"...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna
propbeanie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1941 , dutch east indies , early war , philippines , tactics

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2020 Subsim