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Old 03-07-2008, 04:07 AM   #16
Type941
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I also think its rather messed up that they htink its ok to charge people on download different money, but, since US is main markets they would be rather upset to lose them, then few people in europe. Sad, but true and thats how most companies think.

Thats why my 3 series bimmer costs 56k USD here when new, and 38USD brand new in USA. Think about how that makes me feel. It's not 5 euro difference, oh no.
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:04 AM   #17
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10 dollars is approx 50 Norwegian kroners, I paid 220 kroners for the addon.
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:30 AM   #18
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Default Very strange

The Ubi, a French company, would charge less in the US than in its home. You would think that equivalent money is equivalent money and values sould be equalized. This makes it look like they think "Europeans are much more prosperous than Americans, they'll pay double or triple and smile in our general direction." They also must think there is not instantaneous comparison across the pond to reveal price inequities.

Of course, any solution would go along the lines of making all prices equally high, not equally low:rotfl:, just like socialism has succeeded in making everyone equally poor (except those actually running the government, who tend to live very well), not equally rich.

I work for a newspaper. Once upon a time, not long ago, newspapers were exempt from sales tax in Florida because of constitutional freedom of the press. If you bought a magazine, you paid sales tax. The magazines said, "Hey, we're the press, too. We use printing presses and our publications contain words, just like newspapers, it's not fair that we have to charge sales tax and they don't."

The Florida legislature looked at their protest, and after many drinks and irrelevent conversation, decided that the magazines were right, it wasn't fair. Solution: sales tax on publications of all kinds. This had the additional benefit of keeping protesters in other merchandise categories from complaining about exempt status of similar products. It clearly would not pay and this eliminated much future work for our legislators, who were now free to spend the time they saved at fundraisers to finance their reelection campaigns.

Wow! Governments and corporations work the same way!:rotfl:

And Type941, the European market is larger than that of the US, so where does preferential treatment for the US market make sense? I'd rather have paid $20 for a non-SecuROM infested CD. I understand that's what Europe is getting (except some of you are paying even higher than $20).

To paraphrase Arthur C Clark: Economics is not only stranger than you imagine, but stranger than you CAN imagine.

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Old 03-07-2008, 08:31 AM   #19
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To be honest, after the disasterous early release of SHIV I decided to hold off buying any UBI product for at least 6 months. If they wish to release things early then that's their choice, and mine is to buy it later. As the only logic for releasing it early is so some chump in a tie (why do chumps always wear ties?) can fill in some box on a spreadsheet so some bigger chump in a bigger tie, with stripes, can present a quarterly sales report to a bunch of management type chumps, in very loud ties around a sterile office table, so some really big chump sitting at the end of the table in a bigger chair, wearing two ties, and some garters perhapps, can bathe in the power he feels he has over quite a small bunch of chumps. At least until he's hit by a bus...but that's another story.

Definately feeling a bit "anti-chump" at the moment.
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Gruber
To be honest, after the disasterous early release of SHIV I decided to hold off buying any UBI product for at least 6 months. If they wish to release things early then that's their choice, and mine is to buy it later. As the only logic for releasing it early is so some chump in a tie (why do chumps always wear ties?) can fill in some box on a spreadsheet so some bigger chump in a bigger tie, with stripes, can present a quarterly sales report to a bunch of management type chumps, in very loud ties around a sterile office table, so some really big chump sitting at the end of the table in a bigger chair, wearing two ties, and some garters perhapps, can bathe in the power he feels he has over quite a small bunch of chumps. At least until he's hit by a bus...but that's another story.

Definately feeling a bit "anti-chump" at the moment.
You forgot about the sterile office environment with no windows and mind-numbing flourescent lighting. And all the formulas in the spreadsheet were overwritten with hard numbers seven months ago by a temp worker. Management just can't figure out why no matter how many units they move, sales just stagnate.:rotfl:They laid off the guy who wrote the spreadsheet and nobody else cares enough to look for the problem. After all, the spreadsheet says sales of Pong are as good as ever!

Beware of stupid people in large groups: government, corporations and labor unions. OK, school boards, civic organizations, consumer advocates, conservation groups, condo associations, please don't feel bad if I left your organization out! Let me know and I'll be glad to include it.

Oh bullhockey, here comes another story. During the American Civil War, General Grant worked for General Halleck, who hated him and wanted to fire Grant. Unfortunately, Abraham Lincoln had noticed Grant and taken a shine to him. So Halleck hatched an evil plan. Grant had asked to attack Corinth, so Halleck gave him the order to attack, adding that Grant should attack with 50,000 men.

Grant couldn't begin to find more than half that. So he was in the typical corporate chump double-bind. He could round up as many as he had and attack. If he lost, Halleck would say Grant disobeyed orders to take 50,000. Put the rope around ole Grant's neck and pull the lanyard.

Or Grant, not being able to raise the 50,000, might not attack (wouldn't be very Grant-like, would it?). Then he disobeyed a direct order to attack and put the rope around ole Grant's neck and pull the lanyard.

So Grant attacked with what he had, won, was promoted to Halleck's job, and of course, Halleck was promoted and moved to Washington where he could be among like-minded chumps.

It's a wonder that anything gets accomplished by anybody!:rotfl:

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Old 03-07-2008, 03:15 PM   #21
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Gents,

Don't blame it on Ubi, it's like that on Steam as well. And with Apple products too... It's like if there was parity between Dollars and Euros.
So, if Ubi is evil, Valve and Apple are equally evil, to cite examples.
If I remember well, "Steam" (whoever represented them) blamed it on local taxes, highers in Europe. But I heard that a long time ago, I don't remember who said that when.

I hope that it's does not matter to anyone that Ubi is French, and that it was mentioned here just to point out that it's located in Europe.

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Old 03-08-2008, 07:50 AM   #22
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But of course all corporations are evil (by definition) when it comes to our money, that cannot be news to american people.

And of course it is a shame for us european customers having to pay double price for a european product. It's normal to buy local products cheaper, but more expensive???

I'll wait for the bargain bin this time because I find it disgusting. I got the deluxe box because I totally support this unique product line. But this kind of marketing makes me sick. C'mon Ubi we are in the global era, have you heard???
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:44 AM   #23
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Default Let's be fair here

It is much cheaper to deliver a download to the public, even with Sony's traditional rapacious prices for the SecuROM "bonus", than it is to box up a bunch of DVD's and instruction sheet/manuals. I personally would have preferred to purchase a $20 DVD without SecuROM instead of my $10 SecuROM infested download. I would consider that a better value. That is what Europe is getting.

It's one thing to have fun with "corporations are evil" and "government is evil" but neither observation is true. There are lots of good corporations and a few decent governments. We spend most of our time sneering at the bad ones because that is much more entertaining.

The real problem is large group dynamics. The skill set for obtaining a position of leadership within most large groups is totally different and often in conflict with the skill set of being successful once you get there.

This is especially a problem with democratically elected government, where a great campaigner can be a lousy administrator and the whole shebang falls apart under him once he's elected. An example would be American President Jimmy Carter. He said all kinds of wonderful things while running for president, looked like a winner, wrote the inspiring book "Why Not the Best", wiped out a capable administrator who couldn't persuade his mother to tell him how to get to the bathroom, and the rest is destruction of the American economy for five years.

The fact is that corporations are better than no corporations. Governments are better than no governments. Ever been hired by a poor person? You won't be. Ever had your rights protected by a non-government policeman? It isn't going to happen. Both entities are necessary for any semblance of civilization. Otherwise, start learning to rub sticks together to make fire. We may not live in the best of all possible worlds, but we live in the best world there is.
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:14 AM   #24
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I'm not so naive as to say corporations are bad in themselves. I think they are intrinsically bad when it comes to our money, since a corporation's objective is getting our money. That's the reason for their existence.

In this case, for me, what Ubi have done is lower the price in the USA to a product without much appeal there (German U-Boote) while they kept it up in Europe where it will probably have more success by itself. You can call it supply/demand. In the 21st century, and talking about a product than can be instantly delivered anywhere in the earth in the same conditions, I call it abuse.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:15 AM   #25
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Default Call it what you wish

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOtto
I'm not so naive as to say corporations are bad in themselves. I think they are intrinsically bad when it comes to our money, since a corporation's objective is getting our money. That's the reason for their existence.

In this case, for me, what Ubi have done is lower the price in the USA to a product without much appeal there (German U-Boote) while they kept it up in Europe where it will probably have more success by itself. You can call it supply/demand. In the 21st century, and talking about a product than can be instantly delivered anywhere in the earth in the same conditions, I call it abuse.
That doesn't make it true. Every complany must make a profit to survive. Profits are good, no matter what over 100 years of socialist indoctrination have tried to establish, and profits are to be celebrated as the badge of achievement that a company has produced something that the public sees value in.

The myth that profits are bad, the myth that corporations are bad, the myth that only government can make everything bright and rosy, the myth that you can and should tax those evil corporations, stand exposed as utter foolishness in Europe. Only in the US do we continue to punish our shining achievers with the highest corporate taxes in the world. Fact: it is impossible to tax a business. You can only indirectly tax the customers of that business while you pretend (hilariously) to punish corporate evil. Socialism: the freak dog with three heads, none of which has the sense to squat before it deficates.

Corporations, like government, labor unions, condominium owners' associations are necessary functions that we can only do imperfectly, hoping for more good than evil to be produced. Since they are all made from the same human race, they are all subject to human abuse and misuse. Attacking the institutions because of the evil of the people within is nonsensical. Our alternative is to pick up our clubs, wear animal skins, live in caves and die at age 30. Oh, kiss Silent Hunter goodbye in the process.

As I said before, given the choice of the download for $10 or a boxed DVD without SecuROM for $20, even with the price difference I would have bought the DVD and called it great value, not abuse. Your position fails because you say that are the same product. They are not.

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Old 03-08-2008, 11:33 AM   #26
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Well we are wading totally off-topic here and maybe a little too deep into the matter...

My point is the same, anyway. They can get away with it because we are "tied" to them since no one else is developing hardcore subsims nowadays. But releasing the same title the same day, with so many distribution restrictions, and such price difference, it is just not fair.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:14 PM   #27
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Wow! You're right! Where the heck are we?

So far off topic I can't find any roadsigns out here at all!:rotfl:
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:22 PM   #28
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You are approaching the outskirts of Troll Land, where I live!
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:04 PM   #29
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I have ran into the same thing in reverse downloading from european countries. I play microsoft flight sim and found the cost was double for us U.S customers to download addon content from certain flight sim mega online stores.When i complained I was told the EU taxes everything going out even downloads.So you are not the only one getting hosed.Maybe that's why europeans are always paying higher.

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Old 03-16-2008, 04:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOtto
I'm not so naive as to say corporations are bad in themselves. I think they are intrinsically bad when it comes to our money, since a corporation's objective is getting our money. That's the reason for their existence.

In this case, for me, what Ubi have done is lower the price in the USA to a product without much appeal there (German U-Boote) while they kept it up in Europe where it will probably have more success by itself. You can call it supply/demand. In the 21st century, and talking about a product than can be instantly delivered anywhere in the earth in the same conditions, I call it abuse.
That doesn't make it true. Every complany must make a profit to survive. Profits are good, no matter what over 100 years of socialist indoctrination have tried to establish, and profits are to be celebrated as the badge of achievement that a company has produced something that the public sees value in.

The myth that profits are bad, the myth that corporations are bad, the myth that only government can make everything bright and rosy, the myth that you can and should tax those evil corporations, stand exposed as utter foolishness in Europe. Only in the US do we continue to punish our shining achievers with the highest corporate taxes in the world. Fact: it is impossible to tax a business. You can only indirectly tax the customers of that business while you pretend (hilariously) to punish corporate evil. Socialism: the freak dog with three heads, none of which has the sense to squat before it deficates.

Corporations, like government, labor unions, condominium owners' associations are necessary functions that we can only do imperfectly, hoping for more good than evil to be produced. Since they are all made from the same human race, they are all subject to human abuse and misuse. Attacking the institutions because of the evil of the people within is nonsensical. Our alternative is to pick up our clubs, wear animal skins, live in caves and die at age 30. Oh, kiss Silent Hunter goodbye in the process.

As I said before, given the choice of the download for $10 or a boxed DVD without SecuROM for $20, even with the price difference I would have bought the DVD and called it great value, not abuse. Your position fails because you say that are the same product. They are not.
I have to agree that profit aren't bad, but only under one condition: The profit must be shared with the employees. Nowadays the big corporations make zillions of $, the CEOs get millions of wages and the normal worker is being fired.
This is the reason why leftist parties in parts of the world are becoming more and more popular again.
Ok, that's enough off topic for now folks.
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